Air cav tips

[duz_]

I like GLs for their cost

Flamers have good damage output at close range obviously (although their cost reflects this)

There's also plasma which is the 8th ed allstar and now cheaper for guard. Personally Id still rather run a GL or flamers on a BS4+ guardsmen though

[Tirak]

Well how are you going to employ your SWS? Obviously Command Squads are always better if you got them, combined with a Commander you've got BS3+ Rerolling 1s for safe and reliable overcharges. If you're using Elysians and the like, plasma is superior because you drop in at rapid fire range and unload. 12-16 potential damage depending on SWS or Command Squad.

 

If you're using Valkyries to drop in, again Command Squads are better, but in this case, Meltas have an opportunity to shine as you can drop within 6in for the 2d6 take the highest on their damage. That's a potential 18-24 (though pessimistically it's also a potential 3-4 damage) damage output, again depending on squad.

 

Now you can still fire meltas from 9in deepstrike, but the reason I don't recommend it is because you're firing out fewer shots. 1 melta vs 2 plasma per soldier. And yes, melta deals D6 compared to 2 damage overcharged, but with a guard ballistic skill, that's not really reliable. It's better with Command squads, as always, but even then, dropping at range gives you too much of a chance of rolling poorly and essentially wasting the melta, which you've paid 5 more points for than your 7 point more flexible plasma gun.

 

Plasma guns are reliable, flexible and powerful, meltas are situational and frankly finnicky. On an SWS squad, I would never recommend meltas.

 

Grenade Launchers are an interesting thing. I read somewhere on here that massed grenade launcher fire had superior damage potential mathhammerwise compared to plasma, but I've used both weapons in my army and frankly, the Plasma is always useful, the grenade launcher not so much.

 

The advantage of the GL is you get a 24in D6 shot, making it much better against hoardy armies, however the number of hoards you're going to be able to fight comfortably with an S3 weapon is slim. Other guards and cultists, kroothounds and gaunts are all T3 making you wound on 4s. It's an interesting addition, but not head turning. The Krak Grenade is S6D3, again at a range of 24 inches, so technically you have a 2/3 chance of dealing as much or more than an overcharged plasma gun at long range, however that S6 is a really gutpunch. An opponent respects a S7/8 weapon because most elites will wound on 3s, MEQ is wounded on a 2 against overcharge, and even vehicles are within your punching range. I personally like my special weapons to add to my heavy weapon punch, so the Krak Grenade personally I find insufficient, though again, others have had considerable sucess with it. At 2 points cheaper than plasma though, I'd rather have the plasma.

 

Sniper Rifles are never worth taking on SWS. Command Squads, yes. Got a point or two to spare to put it on a guardsman anchor squad? Sure. But an S4 weapon hitting on 4s just is not reliable enough to dedicate a whole squad to on one shot.

 

Flamers are another anti hoard choice, and this for me is an inverse of the Plasma vs Grenade launcher argument. Yeah, flamers always hit, but at 8in range, and not having any anti tank option at all, I feel they are an inferior choice. The Frag Grenade is good enough, and the Krak Grenade brings an ability that the flamer can't touch, while being cheaper to boot.

 

When in doubt, Plasma. That's a standby I run my armies on, and it's worked out pretty well for me. Melta's can situation ally outshine plasma, but you need to invest in the Valkyries to drop in melta range, and if you're sinking that many points into it, take the Command Squad.

[oldmanlee]

Mmmmmmmmm think I will run a second command squad

Might try two melta command squads as in a valk you can get them in too melta range a bit easier

[oldmanlee]

Guys I was having a think for my boots on the ground units could Cyclopes demo units be a good shout anyone tried that?

[CoffeeGrunt]

They literally blow up once you use them, not great for holding objectives. :P

[oldmanlee]

Haha yeah I forgot lol my bad chimera units it is then

[Tirak]

I don't think Chimera's are a good fit in an Air Cav list. They're too expensive for too little bang. May as well take Arvus Lighters for greater mobility and the Hard to Hit rule. Unless you're hauling Ogryns, the -1 Toughness and 2 fewer wounds is worth it to move 20"-30" and no degrading movement.

 

With that said, I don't use transports at all in my air support list, and it hasn't been an issue so far.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Using Valkyries and Vendettas for an air cav list would be fine if using regular AM infantry squads, because they can't deep strike otherwise. To truly go full on Air Cav, you'll probably want to use Elysians, and then you'll be restricted to very few units. 

 

8th Edition really killed Elysians for me. Veterans are now Elites and have lost their usefulness, and there are no more Stormtroopers. 

[Galron]

Elysians are pretty good actually. I haven't had a problem with the whole vet thing. I bring a bunch of officers and so they weapons from vet squads have turned into command squads, no big deal.

 

Cyclops are my MVPs almost every game and consistently kill multiples of their point cost every single game. I don't use more than 3 though, my army annoys people bad enough deep striking heavy weapons and command squads everywhere. The best game they had, I drove one into a building, opponent didn't notice it and parked a Decimator engine, rhino, and daemon prince right outside said building and my the clops just rolled out and blew up. Killed the rhino, caused an explosion putting wounds on both the engine and the prince. Killed the engine and did enough wounds to kill the prince. My last game they collectively killed 3 Rubric terminators, Ahriman, most of a squad of rubric marines, and the remainder of a squad of the tzeenchigores.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Might have to look into converting some. Oooh, rolling bomb drones! :D

[Tirak]

Well Anvil is talking about doing a line of flying and ground drones for their new PMC line. So in a few months there might be several fun options :)

[oldmanlee]

Well with a new Dex in a few weeks hope the valk get a points drop that would be cool

[Galron]

It definitely needs something. Either a strafing rule like the Vulture or a flat drop in points to make it competitively useful. Having to pay for all those guns that barely do anything kind of sucks.

[oldmanlee]

It definitely needs something. Either a strafing rule like the Vulture or a flat drop in points to make it competitively useful. Having to pay for all those guns that barely do anything kind of sucks.

Yep I hope for something like that

[Galron]

Now if you bring it as a Catachan, it at least gets rerolls on shots for the missile pods. Does its hellstrike missile have random shots or is it single shot random damage, never used it.

[Tirak]

Hellstrike's are Heavy 1. Doesn't help rocket pods much because you still have to get past that horrible BS5.

[oldmanlee]

Hellstrike's are Heavy 1. Doesn't help rocket pods much because you still have to get past that horrible BS5.

Yeah valks need a rules tweak or drop in points I'm hopefull for the Dex to bring something cool

[Altasmurf]

Valks don't get a regiment, so they can't be catachan. Edited September 25, 2017 by Altasmurf

[Galron]

Wow, you are right. I wonder if that's one of the many typos in the index or intentional. Guess we will see in a couple weeks.

[Altasmurf]

I would think intentional. They have purposefully made certain aspects of the guard auxiliary units (both fluff and game play) and thus they do not belong to a specific regiment. Myself, I don't expect this to change.

[Guardsman Bob]

My gutt instinct says they intentionally kept the index books simple to save on costs and increase the value of actual codexes when they drop. I’m fully expecting to see the AM engineer and priest still in our book. It would be surprising if they changed course and not kept a unit in the codex as part of that codex.

 

A good way to check is to see if any of the released codexes have non-codex units included in them.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Guardsman Bob

[oldmanlee]

Had a game last night played my mates deathwatch army bullgriyns are super fun valks not so great

[Tirak]

Yep, Valks as we've been saying just do not get their points back with an effective BS5+

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Maybe the new codex will change that?

[Altasmurf]

I'm wording if steel legion in valks could be a thing. Jump out at longer range rapid fire, then when the opponent moves to engage rapid fire again and mount back up.