What makes a good Warhammer campaign?

[Ranwulf]

Guys, I'm building a warhammer campaign, and while I already have the opinion of my friends, i want to ask what makes a good warhammer campaign for you guys?

 

Is it the development of your characters?

 

Different missions?

 

Maybe a quick and play style, where you don't need to obligate yourself to play it?

 

Maybe having a DMing to keep the narration of the story?

[N1SB]

I've observed a lot of campaigns and have noticed what works and what doesn't.  Someone accidentally stumbled on a formula and I think the latter part of your post is pretty close to it.  I share this freely in the hopes they can add to your success while minimising your effort (that's the part that was heart-breaking to see).

 

 

Maybe a quick and play style, where you don't need to obligate yourself to play it?

 

Maybe having a DMing to keep the narration of the story?

 

People put a lot of effort in their campaigns and it turns out the most effective things were the relatively easy.

 

 

1. Post results of battle in an organised way where the players can see

 

 

Before, I found that someone posting on Dakka seems to have a real impact.  IMHO it might easier to post on here now, and it's probably better since people can [✓ Like This].  This really drives involvement.

 

You're already a respected poster here, but maybe they're not, it turns out a lot of 40k players are forum readers and not posters, even though this isn't advanced technology.  Post simple battle reports but with lots of photos so people feel their armies are being showcased.  Or, encourage your players to, so you don't have to post on their behalves the whole time (you'll probably have to post the first few battle reports, to get the ball rolling, but afterwards players would be more than happy to do it so they can give THEIR version of events).

 

It's not pure ego, it's also people want to see what they do making a difference of some sort, win or lose.  Observable results matter.  It's easy for you to do this because you've long had an account here.  And on that note...

 

 

2. A campaign map, that shows which factions control what/where, has the biggest draw

 

 

This was where I initially noticed what people fixate on.  One day, I noticed everyone in our FLGS gathered around a printout basically on a cork board, with little coloured pins sticking out of it.  It was a fictional map of a campaign map and the pins designated what territories people control.  People freak out over this.  It gives it this whole Lord of the Rings map feel.

 

I think anyone could achieve the same thing by just toying around with a Powerpoint Presentation over some kind of funky map, colour-coding faction-controlled areas.  There's going to be some rules about how you can only attack factions next to your territories, obviously, but the goal is to have this literal overview of the campaign, where you can see the whole board.

 

A campaign map is BOTH a Forge-a-Narrative/DM storytelling tool AND a scorecard.  It is simply the best tool.

 

I feel very strongly about this point, and when I have time, I'd like to do a mock-up, because I do believe it's simple to do but extremely effective.  I'll post an example later and check how long it took me to do, just to give you an idea.

 

 

3. Keep the rules short, simple, standardised, systematic, that raises minimal arguments

 

 

What you said about a quick playstyle and not obligating people is important.  The campaign serves the players, the players do not serve the campaign.  This is such a huge pitfall I'm really glad you're already aware of this.

 

The situation is campaign creators tend to spend all their effort in making complex campaign special rules that, paradoxically, actually turn off players.  40k already has a lot of rules.  8th ed streamlined those, but is still new and people are still learning the nuances.  The LAST thing you want is to complicate it with MORE rules.

 

And you already have a solution with that.  The 8th ed book has a Narrative Play option and missions, PLUS I think we're getting more soon in a coming Chapter Approved.  People can agree to that.  Everyone knows GW isn't the most balanced thing, but at least it's the same unbalanced stuff everyone else has, so it's ok.

 

The most important thing is, despite what homebrew rules creators think, homebrew rules are the LEAST important thing from what I've seen.  Instead, what I saw was observable results, especially the idea of a campaign map, is what really motivates people.

 

 

+++

 

 

Just putting these together, the most achievable thing, I think would be something like this:

 

- start a Special Projects-like thread online, like here on B&C...you already know how to do that, so ✓

- post the DM storytelling you want to do, and I'll follow up with what I mean by a campaign map

- better to use simple campaign rules, which I think are coming in Chapter Approved, so ✓

 

These are just words, let me follow-up with this campaign map idea where I got time, it's easier to show than tell.

[Ranwulf]

I've observed a lot of campaigns and have noticed what works and what doesn't.  Someone accidentally stumbled on a formula and I think the latter part of your post is pretty close to it.  I share this freely in the hopes they can add to your success while minimising your effort (that's the part that was heart-breaking to see).

 

 

Maybe a quick and play style, where you don't need to obligate yourself to play it?

 

Maybe having a DMing to keep the narration of the story?

 

People put a lot of effort in their campaigns and it turns out the most effective things were the relatively easy.

 

 

1. Post results of battle in an organised way where the players can see

 

 

Before, I found that someone posting on Dakka seems to have a real impact.  IMHO it might easier to post on here now, and it's probably better since people can [✓ Like This].  This really drives involvement.

 

You're already a respected poster here, but maybe they're not, it turns out a lot of 40k players are forum readers and not posters, even though this isn't advanced technology.  Post simple battle reports but with lots of photos so people feel their armies are being showcased.  Or, encourage your players to, so you don't have to post on their behalves the whole time (you'll probably have to post the first few battle reports, to get the ball rolling, but afterwards players would be more than happy to do it so they can give THEIR version of events).

 

It's not pure ego, it's also people want to see what they do making a difference of some sort, win or lose.  Observable results matter.  It's easy for you to do this because you've long had an account here.  And on that note...

 

 

2. A campaign map, that shows which factions control what/where, has the biggest draw

 

 

This was where I initially noticed what people fixate on.  One day, I noticed everyone in our FLGS gathered around a printout basically on a cork board, with little coloured pins sticking out of it.  It was a fictional map of a campaign map and the pins designated what territories people control.  People freak out over this.  It gives it this whole Lord of the Rings map feel.

 

I think anyone could achieve the same thing by just toying around with a Powerpoint Presentation over some kind of funky map, colour-coding faction-controlled areas.  There's going to be some rules about how you can only attack factions next to your territories, obviously, but the goal is to have this literal overview of the campaign, where you can see the whole board.

 

A campaign map is BOTH a Forge-a-Narrative/DM storytelling tool AND a scorecard.  It is simply the best tool.

 

I feel very strongly about this point, and when I have time, I'd like to do a mock-up, because I do believe it's simple to do but extremely effective.  I'll post an example later and check how long it took me to do, just to give you an idea.

 

 

3. Keep the rules short, simple, standardised, systematic, that raises minimal arguments

 

 

What you said about a quick playstyle and not obligating people is important.  The campaign serves the players, the players do not serve the campaign.  This is such a huge pitfall I'm really glad you're already aware of this.

 

The situation is campaign creators tend to spend all their effort in making complex campaign special rules that, paradoxically, actually turn off players.  40k already has a lot of rules.  8th ed streamlined those, but is still new and people are still learning the nuances.  The LAST thing you want is to complicate it with MORE rules.

 

And you already have a solution with that.  The 8th ed book has a Narrative Play option and missions, PLUS I think we're getting more soon in a coming Chapter Approved.  People can agree to that.  Everyone knows GW isn't the most balanced thing, but at least it's the same unbalanced stuff everyone else has, so it's ok.

 

The most important thing is, despite what homebrew rules creators think, homebrew rules are the LEAST important thing from what I've seen.  Instead, what I saw was observable results, especially the idea of a campaign map, is what really motivates people.

 

 

+++

 

 

Just putting these together, the most achievable thing, I think would be something like this:

 

- start a Special Projects-like thread online, like here on B&C...you already know how to do that, so ✓

- post the DM storytelling you want to do, and I'll follow up with what I mean by a campaign map

- better to use simple campaign rules, which I think are coming in Chapter Approved, so ✓

 

These are just words, let me follow-up with this campaign map idea where I got time, it's easier to show than tell.

Wow, these were really useful, thanks man.

My gaming club has a few places to post results (a Facebook page), and I think you are totally right people would want to see the results somewhere. 

 

The map is also a really good idea, I just don't have much knowledge on how to make a Sci fi one (I remember making a fantasy map once, but it felt very differently). 

 

My only worry is the "keeping the rules simple", as each phase I made basically award better Campaing Points for specific missions like Planetfall, and more points if the players agree with the Battlezone:Fire and Fury special rules (which is how I make sure that the campaing can be played if you want to or not, the Phase can even end on 0 x 0 if it comes to that, its all player choice, but with incentives for the players to get the more thematic missions and special rules).

 

What makes it complicated is that there is a development table that its not really that complicated to understand (you get experience, you choose an ability or skill from the table), but it comes with abilites for a Warlord and one special unit for the army. Adding to that, there are  Artifacts to improve the Warlords a bit more. This development is to make the units and forces unique, as the Warlords get to be specialists of the their trade (some great in CC, others in shooting, others with Leadership and Aura abilites).

 

I think its simple to understand, but after I finish the first draft I will send to my friends the whole thing to see if they understand, and I could post it here too.

 

Ran

[Damo1701]

Have a look at starting small, like 500 points and a patrol detachment.

 

Have garrison forces encounter each other etc. Then, after every round, expand on the points to increase forces as reinforcements are called in etc.

 

Are you planning a system-wide campaign, or a planetwide campaign?

[N1SB]

Hi, actually played around with a campaign map for only about an hour. This is a Proof-of-Concept (and could well be a Piece-of-Crap). Just 1 approach to the idea!

My goal was something either a player OR an observer would immediately understand at a glance, because players are motivated by an audience.

What does it say, in case it's not clear. There's 3 factions in this example: Genestealer Cult, Ultramarines, Chaos. Everything colour coded.

It should be intuitive that factions can attack areas, represented by hexes, adjacent to theirs. Also gives a rough idea of who's winning/losing.

After each battle, a quick update, takes just a few minutes, and point out what changed. In this example, the Genestealers took a tile, a little DM storytelling.

I added a progress bar. Based on my experiences in the FLGS, campaigns don't really end...they fizzle out. This is arbitrary, just to show Plot Is Moving Forward.

Then I added minimal rules in my case. Here, just a few special missions for particular tiles, and each one gives an amount of Command Points.

What about things like points costs, which Detachment to use? In this case, I'd say leave it up to the players, it's like them organising regular games, they decide if they want to do 500 pts, 1000 pts, 2000 pts, etc. They want to do the all Elites detachment? Fine. All I'm offering is more Command Points and highlight special missions.

That's just my take, not trying to assert how I'd run a campaign, EXCEPT that having a campaign map is freaking awesome and really gets players pumped.

+++++

Just a proof-of-concept to help you brainstorm, totally not obligating you to work on this, but I honestly think it's a great idea, especially on something like Facebook. It's because of how something like Facebook is setup; you can post an image with some comments, that's about how much it can handle.

What I hope to illustrate was 1 image, at a glance, any 40k player can understand the whole campaign. With Facebook, perhaps that's even more important.

Our FLGS does offer to print out campaign rules, we have a really good FLGS, and will leave multiple copies hanging around both for lookup and to help promote the player campaign. A GW store? Probably can't do that, I believe they have some retail guidelines and they try to draw attention to their own stuff, which is plentiful.

+++++

How I made this:

- I went to basically a fantasy map maker website, generated a random map

- copypasta'd into a Powerpoint, put some hexagons and icons on it, played with it a bit

- made some rules kinda to justify the icons and stuff, tbh I did it the opposite way around

This is an overly simplistic example, to just help the brainstorm process.

My only worry is the "keeping the rules simple", as each phase I made basically award better Campaing Points for specific missions like Planetfall, and more points if the players agree with the Battlezone:Fire and Fury special rules (which is how I make sure that the campaing can be played if you want to or not, the Phase can even end on 0 x 0 if it comes to that, its all player choice, but with incentives for the players to get the more thematic missions and special rules).

What makes it complicated is that there is a development table that its not really that complicated to understand (you get experience, you choose an ability or skill from the table), but it comes with abilites for a Warlord and one special unit for the army. Adding to that, there are Artifacts to improve the Warlords a bit more. This development is to make the units and forces unique, as the Warlords get to be specialists of the their trade (some great in CC, others in shooting, others with Leadership and Aura abilites).

I think its simple to understand, but after I finish the first draft I will send to my friends the whole thing to see if they understand, and I could post it here too.

I totally understand what you mean and why. It's like character development, RPG elements, should be easy peasy. Don't let me impede your ideas, and the comment wasn't targeted at your rules, which I'm sure are great. I don't doubt you; I doubt other players.

It turned out when a question comes up about a homebrewed rule, players expect an immediate response from you. What I heard from a campaign creator was it got kind of annoying when players kept WhatsApping him for rule clarifications. And I think the reason was just your very measured, cool concern: it's not really that complicated, people should understand. All it takes is someone asking a question. Then everything stops and you have to go in and fix the bottleneck.

The benefit of sticking to GW's rules isn't just because it's simple, it's because people are more likely to just turn to FAQs or other sources instead of bugging you.

Basically, the problem aren't the rules, it's people. Sticking to a standardised set, like GW's official rules, at least get them trying to figure things out themselves.

Just some thoughts. Eagerly awaiting the supposed campaign rules in Chapter Approved and building something like the above map for a campaign of our own.

[Doghouse]

I agree with Not 1, the map based game is probably the most engaging.

 

One way I found that was quite good was to keep the narrative separate from the map so that the results on the map campaign drive a narrative of their own. I think the approach is to keep it simple because like Not 1 says you can have the most amazing system in the world but you can guarantee someone will try something you haven't covered and throw a spanner in the works.

 

Here's a system I made to show one way to keep it simple but still create a story.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8e1Bkdgu64&t=38s&ab_channel=Doghouse40k

 

One tried and true way you can make even the simplest system engaging is with the use of monthly updates for your group in the form of something like a planetary newspaper, something like the way Warhammer Community does their guard communications thing is a fun way. Something like this can easily be knocked together using paint, then you just save the template and churn it out on your facebook group each month.

 

One thing to remember is plagiarism is not a dirty word when it comes to making a campaign for your group. Research as much as possible then use the best bits of other people's ideas and tailor it to suit your group. 

[Mileposter]

(Snip)

2. A campaign map, that shows which factions control what/where, has the biggest draw

 

 

This was where I initially noticed what people fixate on.  One day, I noticed everyone in our FLGS gathered around a printout basically on a cork board, with little coloured pins sticking out of it.  It was a fictional map of a campaign map and the pins designated what territories people control.  People freak out over this.  It gives it this whole Lord of the Rings map feel.

 

I think anyone could achieve the same thing by just toying around with a Powerpoint Presentation over some kind of funky map, colour-coding faction-controlled areas.  There's going to be some rules about how you can only attack factions next to your territories, obviously, but the goal is to have this literal overview of the campaign, where you can see the whole board.

 

A campaign map is BOTH a Forge-a-Narrative/DM storytelling tool AND a scorecard.  It is simply the best tool.

 

I feel very strongly about this point, and when I have time, I'd like to do a mock-up, because I do believe it's simple to do but extremely effective.  I'll post an example later and check how long it took me to do, just to give you an idea.

(Snip)

I would like to second this part. The other parts laid out are equally important, but this had the most visible impact on campaigns that I have witnessed and run.

 

My most successful foray into running a campaign was a map I built myself digitally, with a world that I created and developed myself. I built a web interface that allowed my players to look into the lore for each territory they could control, see who controls it, had a few spaces give slight bonuses, see a recap of the previous 'rounds', and plan their next games. It had some toggle elements, like showing what the current points (Those campaigns determined the winner with a point value, but if I ran it again, I would do something different now) were and turning the names/lore on and off. It was wildly successful and the two times I've run a campaign with it my players have gone kinda nuts with it. They love it.

 

A pair of quick snapshots:

 

Color shading showed which army controlled which territory on the map.

 

Territory with the 'Titles' and 'Symbols' turned on. The markers show which territories had bonuses for who owned it. Players were able to click on the territory names and see Lore information about that territory as well as what the bonus was for owning it - in the style of Dawn of War 1.

 

...

 

Come to think of it, it wouldn't be too difficult to modify the coding a bit, and make it available here on B&C for a campaign or two. Maybe run something folks here can play with. Or at the very least, put up in a way others can use it for their campaigns. Perhaps I'll start up a project thread for it.

[RandomMarine]

I never do progression for character but units but its one upgrade per unit. The mvu of the winners team rolls a d6 on 4+ get to eith er upgrade A,W or LD

[Adeptus]

Maps and things aside, the most important aspects I've noticed for a successful campaign are: A fixed timeframe, and flexible commitments.

 

People simply get bored with something like a campaign after a while, and in my experience after about six weeks of any given campaign, player involvement will drop off sharply as people start playing other games, get distracted by new releases for other systems, want to use their other army for a change, etc.

 

And players often have real-life limitations on their time. If Thursday nights are campaign nights, and people really need to be there to make their moves, choose actions, make rolls for things, etc, then sometimes people won't be able to make it and the whole campaign will bog down. You need a system that can A: keep moving if one or two participants have to sit out for a round or two and B: allows players to make their plans and decisions electronically so they can make their moves by text/email/FB post or whatever.

 

If you've got those two key factors locked down, then you can start thinking about ways to increase immersion, player input, etc. In an ideal would you'd have an interactive map, both a physical and digital version, well-written battle reports and weekly roundups, lots of photos, etc.

[Ranwulf]

Maps and things aside, the most important aspects I've noticed for a successful campaign are: A fixed timeframe, and flexible commitments.

 

People simply get bored with something like a campaign after a while, and in my experience after about six weeks of any given campaign, player involvement will drop off sharply as people start playing other games, get distracted by new releases for other systems, want to use their other army for a change, etc.

 

And players often have real-life limitations on their time. If Thursday nights are campaign nights, and people really need to be there to make their moves, choose actions, make rolls for things, etc, then sometimes people won't be able to make it and the whole campaign will bog down. You need a system that can A: keep moving if one or two participants have to sit out for a round or two and B: allows players to make their plans and decisions electronically so they can make their moves by text/email/FB post or whatever.

 

If you've got those two key factors locked down, then you can start thinking about ways to increase immersion, player input, etc. In an ideal would you'd have an interactive map, both a physical and digital version, well-written battle reports and weekly roundups, lots of photos, etc.

Basically what I've planned was a 4 to 5 phases campaign. Each phase would take more or less a month to complete, but the set up is that in these people win Capaign points that helps their teams win the Phase. In my head, the Phase can even end on 0 X 0, as if anyone dont wanna play or cant, the phase ends either way as a tie. 

 

Each phase also has a specific "theme", where you get points for playing specific missions. As you said, I don't want to FORCE the participants to do anything, because the players will definitly get either bored, or feel constraints.

 

Basically here how is Phase 1:

 

- During this phase, any game played with the Battlezone: Fire and Fury will earn the winner +2 Campaign Points, and the defeated +1 Campaign Points to any game they play.

- During this phase, the Mission Planetfall will earn 4 CP to the winner, and 2 CP to the defeated.

- Any other mission played will earn 2 CP to the winner and 1 CP to the defeated.

 

Each phase has a theme like that. Phase 1 is Planestrike, Phase 2 is Maelstrom of War missions and Bunker Assault; Phase 3 is the Battlezone: Psychic Maelstrom + Empyric Storm table from Gathering Storm; Phase 4 is the Battlezone: Night Fight, and the City Fight mission Firesweep.

 

If after the last mission there is a tie, then we will begin Phase 5 if the players want to (if they are okay with a draw then I will finish the campaign there). Its a full on phase with all the Battlezones amd the Crucible of War missions, with every 15 campaign points meaning the team won a phase. 

 

There are also a few Artifact missions who are just very specific versions of certain missions. The artifacts are one of the way to improve the Warlords.

 

The biggest difference of what makes a game a Campaign game or not is the demand that the Campaign Warlord and his Unit of Renown be played in his list, these two are two strong units that get their own development table as they earn XP. In my opinion, they would be the lycnhpin for the campaign, on the sense that as free you can choose what to play or not, the Warlords are what can keep you playing other games, as they can evolve in very cool ways, and the more you play the stronger they become. Later I can post the development tables.

 

Ran

[the jeske]

1/ did I or my faction dominate/won?

2/ did I or my faction end up with extra rules, prizes, shop gift cards etc ?

3/ how many people not being me or playing my faction get to xp my/my factions dominations and how bad they felt about it. The worse they feel about it, the better?

4/ Intricet scenarios with narrative special rules or win conditions my army/faction can use to an adventage [mine fields make it dangerous to move around? lol my army is all skimers or flyers// have to get to a certain point within certain time limit with my opponent having extra X points over me? sure here are my drop pods/in game teleporters that get there turn one before my opponent even gets turn1]

5/ Playing a noob in round 1-2[when small points don't matter much] and showing him how real W40k looks like.

6/ Playing people from other shops, non locals, other play groups and making them feel as if they wasted extra money[on top of getting their armies] to generate prizes you or your team will get.

Optional stuff which can be cool, but doesn't have to happen to make an event good.

a/ someone loses/gets his army stolen if he is not you or from your team

b/ someone missing train, getting his car locked, missing hotel reservation etc

c/ mid event codex change , which changes your factions from "lol he plays wut?" to "DraigoWing is too OP and people playing it should die". Preferably after people not from your team pay and send in their lists.