Kill Team thoughts

[KGatch113]

Haven't seen any of these ideas elsewhere, so thought I'd start a thread on them.

 

Watch Sergeant is a free upgrade, and you get +1 A and +1 L.  Don't forget that.

 

Black Shield gets +1 A and allows the unit to have heroic intervention ( mandatory!). So that could be a plus or minus.

 

Vets have 2 attacks.

 

Now...here's the trick. Trade in your boltgun for 2 items from the equipment list. Take a chainsword and a boltgun. ( In my army, any non-power weapon = chainsword). 

 

That's +1 attack in HTH, for a total of 3. Not bad for a normal marine. On the flip side, you could take a bolt pistol and get a shooting attack, but the chainsword/combat blade attack works even when you charge and presumably you've already shot up an enemy. 

 

You can than trade in your boltgun for a heavy weapon, so you'll still have 3 attacks with your frag cannon guy.

Combi Weapons with the Watchmaster nearby.....you can fire both weapons at once, so rapid firing vengeance rounds or kraken rounds plus say, plasma shots. You're -1 to hit, so after rerolling 1's and 2's, you check if you missed. But I think getting 4 shots at -1 with rerolls is better than 2 shots with rerolls at BS 3. Can someone do the mathhammer on this? ( just remember that any 2's become 1's if you supercharge your plasma). According to my calculations you should still get the same number of hits on average with Bs3. 

 

Characters can take combi weapons....why take a pistol when someone like a librarian can use smite in the psychic phase, than follow up with 2 rapid fire plasma shots....

 

I've seen some mathhammer done on stormbolters and how they are more efficient than SIA boltguns. I'm not remodelling my guys though, but keep that in mind for future units.

 

Anything else one needs to remember with DW Kill Teams? I'm thinking a pure KT because frankly, adding the biker/vanguard or terminator makes them less versatile. You can't put them in a transport, and footslogging negates any kind of alpha/beta strike, which is where a DWKT  should excel. 

[Mobius0288]

A lot of things have been talked about here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334428-8th-edition-dw-tactica/

 

As well as various other threads if the specific question came up.

 

Blackshields can take a regular Thunder Hammer, but not a Heavy Thunder Hammer. It says in the Kill Team data sheet a Deathwatch Veteran may take a Heavy Thunder Hammer. The Blackshield is an upgraded model, though free.

The heavy weapons guys trade all of their weapons (boltgun and chainsword) for a single heavy weapon. All they get in melee is the CCW profile.

 

You are spot on with the combi-weapons stuff. And someone went through and did some math-hammer in the above thread (linked), giving you probabilities. It's probably a good idea characters take combi-weapons or mastercrafter guns since they don't get special issue ammunition (unless future codex change!).

 

I'd say it depends when it comes to the stormbolter. Ya you get a ton more shots, but having those modifiers could be better when it comes to causing wounds to a model.

 

I use mostly veterans in my kill teams but I have run them with a vanguard and terminator before. Your only choice for transport at that point will be the corvus blackstar.

[KGatch113]

Thanks for the link!

 

Didn't realize the FAQ changed the heavy weapons entry.

 

So now I'm wondering whether taking pistols over combiweapons/chainswords is worth it.  Instead of taking combi weapons, the cheaper option is to take either the plasma or grav pistol. You can thus equip every member of the kill team with them. Grav is great against normal infantry, especially TEQ, and can wound bigger stuff on a 5. Plasma can wound anything on T7 on a 4, and reliably do D2, but there's always the chance of rolling a 1 ( though you can mitigate this with a captain/watchmaster). By spreading out the plasma love, if you do lose a model it doesn't hurt as much as losing a guy with a combi plas. Still debating taking combi melta's.

 

[Moostick]

Combi vs pistol really just comes down to how many spare points you have. There's a reason why specials/combis now cost twice as much.

 

Combi or rifle-version is better in pretty much every situation except the 2nd round of melee combat, but it's rare any fight with DW will even last that long (be it one side is wiped out or falling back). Regular shooting, range, overwatch, weathering the enemy before a charge - combi/special is better in all these scenarios.

[MeltaRange]

Thanks for the link!

 

Didn't realize the FAQ changed the heavy weapons entry.

 

So now I'm wondering whether taking pistols over combiweapons/chainswords is worth it.  Instead of taking combi weapons, the cheaper option is to take either the plasma or grav pistol. You can thus equip every member of the kill team with them. Grav is great against normal infantry, especially TEQ, and can wound bigger stuff on a 5. Plasma can wound anything on T7 on a 4, and reliably do D2, but there's always the chance of rolling a 1 ( though you can mitigate this with a captain/watchmaster). By spreading out the plasma love, if you do lose a model it doesn't hurt as much as losing a guy with a combi plas. Still debating taking combi melta's.

 

 

 

I've tried pistols a lot and think that ultimately, they fall somewhere between "suck" and overrated. (except on deepstriking VV)  The reason is because either: 1) you charge on your turn, pistols are useless in combat since you already had your shooting phase, or 2) you are charged and your unit is most likely dead before making it to the next shooting phase, since they strike last.  In either case you need to be in combat for 1-2 turns before even using your pistols.  Typically, your 5 wounds of 3+ save will be dead as a doornail before you can hope to shoot with your pistols.  

 

They get a little better in units with Black Shields or on Characters, since they can perform Heroic Intervention in the opponent's turn when they charge, survive that first round of combat, (the charging rules state that you can only attack a unit you charged, so a model doing a Heroic Intervention is immune to being attacked in that first round) and then can shoot into combat on your next turn.  

 

I do often run a Librarian with a Inferno Pistol that hangs around a unit meant to receive a charge and then has a shot to take out something with his shooting attack (str 8 d6 damage) + force axe w/ Might of Heroes when my turn arrives.  It's a one trick fun thing though, not a great competitive choice.