Questions: Fielding Night Lord 'zekers' and generic Marines

[Magnus Thane]

Having gathered some 20-30 raptors, some havoks and 3 Hellbrutes for my upcoming Night Lords project, I was pondering what to do with the footsloggers.
I'm desperately trying to avoid the 'boxes' on tracks aka rhino's and co. (sick and tired of those. Used to field them back when I played 40K and painted so many I despise em now :p )

The Khorne Berserkers seem fun for a group of psychotic Night Lords in assault mode. If I were to field but 1 unit of those... how many and with what equipment? 

 

The basic CSMs that will represent a generic basic Night Lord. How do you all field them. It seems best to field them with bolters. Is there something to say for fielding a large blob of Marines? Or some small squads? And if so, favouring what weapon(s)?

 

[Azekai]

As a general rule of thumb, you want small squads to get the most out of the Night Lords legion trait. One squad of berzerkers isn't terrible, especially if the enemy is already beset by raptors, but you might want a transport despite your understandable hatred for metal bawkses. Footslogging 'zerkers may take too long to catch up with the rest of your mobile army... and a smart opponent will make sure to fill the loonies with lead before they can get into striking range.

Bog-standard CSM are in kind of a weird spot. They are not particularly good at anything, and I dislike using them. Do you have a plan for these CSM? Are they objective campers or meant to accompany a character?

[Magnus Thane]

As a general rule of thumb, you want small squads to get the most out of the Night Lords legion trait. One squad of berzerkers isn't terrible, especially if the enemy is already beset by raptors, but you might want a transport despite your understandable hatred for metal bawkses. Footslogging 'zerkers may take too long to catch up with the rest of your mobile army... and a smart opponent will make sure to fill the loonies with lead before they can get into striking range.

 

Bog-standard CSM are in kind of a weird spot. They are not particularly good at anything, and I dislike using them. Do you have a plan for these CSM? Are they objective campers or meant to accompany a character?

Thanks for the super quick feedback.

Yeah I wish we had an affordable drop pod or something I could use as a transport. As I hate Rhino's.

Maybe a landraider. I might be able to force myself to paint a singular Landraider to slam some guys into...

 

The Khornate Guys I was going to rush forward perhaps behind a screen of some expendable cultists. Got the Dark Vengeance cultists. So basically 1 10 man shooty cultist squad and 1 beaty cultists squad.

 

The CSMs I was considering to make a bit of fire support. Perhaps camp on an objective.

After all for the agression it seemed like my Night Lords will be big on raptors teamed up with Zerkies.

 

I also have 2 sets of Chosen. Mostly agression orientated. (the Dark Vengeance guys 2x. 2 of them converted to have flamers)

I rather like the idea of slamming those in the aforementioned Landraider and having them go have some fun in cc.

Not exactly termies but flavorful.

And like the boxes I have overused Termies in the past. My Black Legion, Grey Knights and Dark Angels of editions long gone were all big on rhinos and termies.

 

My main goal is to play with units I like that i've never done in the past while trying to stay somewhat fluffy.

[Lord Abaia]

Well Night Lords definitely benefit from MSU saturation even more than your typical CSM due to the way their terror tactics work (-1 ld for each unit within 6" up to -3, cumulative with IoD and Raptor debuffs) so I'm personally going to run a five berzerker squad along side a five CSM squad in a Rhino (not what you want, I know) followed by a five Raptor squad with an Icon of Despair. I'm going to mirror this with a Rhino carrying a Slaanesh havoc squad with flamers replacing the Berzerkers.

 

However if you plan on footslogging them, any size squad will be a high priority target for your opponent, so you had might as well go big numbers to ensure something survives and save some CP for using the In Midnight Clad stratagem on them. The Icon of Wrath will also be a must for a large footslogging unit.

 

As for equipment, chainaxes and swords are probably the most efficient and more importantly the coolest loadout. People on here are pretty pleased with putting a 12 pt fist on the champion for 6 S10 AP-3 Dd3 attacks, but I have a bucket full of leftover warp talon LCs and I might give my 'zerker champ a pair of those for 8 S5 AP-2 attacks with rerolls to wound because I think it's cool.

 

I'm going to build mine out of Raptor bodies with the rocks and rubble base trimmed off of their feet so they are leaning forward in a sprint. There are a few heretic frater who have posted pics and I think they turn out really good. I'm going to give mine the FW Nostraman Chainglaives as counts as chainaxes. I'm also kicking around the idea of using some of the more vertical batwing helmets from the old Night Lords upgrade kit to ape the traditional berzerker "bunny ears." But it might look too dumb.

[Magnus Thane]

Me and my buddy are actually not going to use pts but the Power Point system for narrative play.
So we'll not be super cutthroat.
That may impact the feedback, sorry for not mentioning this beforehand.

 

So a large 20 man 'zerker unit. Champion with fist. Icon of Wrath.
If I get your jist it would be better I assemble my Raptors not in big clunky 10 man units but multiple 5 man squads?

[Lord Abaia]

Me and my buddy are actually not going to use pts but the Power Point system for narrative play.

So we'll not be super cutthroat.

That may impact the feedback, sorry for not mentioning this beforehand.

 

So a large 20 man 'zerker unit. Champion with fist. Icon of Wrath.

If I get your jist it would be better I assemble my Raptors not in big clunky 10 man units but multiple 5 man squads?

I think so. To make your opponent feel the most pain in the morale phase you are going to want each of his units to be within 6" of 3 NL units, within 6" of 1 unit with an Icon if you are taking them, and within 1" of 1 Raptor unit.

 

Also Raptors can take 2 special weapons regardless of unit size, so more 5 man groups means more shooting.

 

If you want a satisfying charge though I'd recommend a larger unit. Special weapon Raptors don't get a chainsword they so a five man, two special unit doesn't hit very hard.

[Magnus Thane]

Thanks Magpie.

It might be worthwhile mixing it up.
2 Raptor squads built for close combat.
And then 2 or more other Raptor units supporting with Special Weapons?

[Petitioner's City]

This made me think, how will you model Night Lord berserkers, so they are both Khornate and VIII Legion/VIII Legion new recruits? 

 

Googling I found the following unsatisfactory painting examples:

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/7/21/122378_sm-Khorne%20Berserker%201.JPG

 

http://www.coolminiornot.com/pics/pics16/img4fae77ca3ebb7.jpg

 

Imagery of Uzas might be a good choice for sources - people have thought about how to represent a very Khornate Night Lord there. 

 

 

 

But for more normal guys rather than showpiece models...can chainglaives help, or are they too skillful to use in a mad rage? 

 

 

Or BLoodbound parts? I couldn't find them in blue with blood anywhere alas. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/LDRa5K6.jpg

[Gordon Shumway]

Personally, I think the kharbydous assault claw is criminally undercosted for what it can't bring to the party, so if your aren't into bawkses, might take a second look at them. Modeling wise, I'm going to convert up some helmets using the head wings from vampire counts models in lieu of the Khorne bunny ears. Body wise, I think I'm just going bog standard marines with skulls on the belts, though the fantasy models could work fine.

[techsoldaten]

+1 for the Kharbdis. I have one, it's not just a transport but also a devastating close combat engine.

 

When it gets the charge, it gets a special S16 AP -5 attack that hits on a 2+ and causes 2d6 wounds. The rules for this weapon state it only applies when charging Vehicles or Monsters, but it does not specify the need to direct the attack at those things. This gives you one of the game's best character killing machines, so long as he's standing near a Rhino.

 

With regards to assault, the KAC fits 20 models, but they have to arrive at the end of the movement phase 9 inches away from your opponent. Many players use Warptime to ensure their Berzerkers get into combat the turn it arrives. It's a valid tactic, but I like dropping Noise Marines instead and using the Warptime on the KAC itself. Having a big firing base appear next to your opponent's lines along with a vehicle killer is a huge distraction, enough to give your Berzerkers a turn or two to advance without facing serious opposition.

[the jeske]

why not just infiltrate the EC with AL stratagem, it costs 1 CP instead of the whooping cost of a kharybdis ?

[Plaguecaster]

^^^^^

Well then it wouldn't be a Night lords force now would it ;)

Edited September 6, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[Marshal Loss]

Another vote for Dreadclaws/Kharybdis. Really fits the NL imagery, and the rule are fun too.

[Aothaine]

Just want to point out that according to the Night Lords Chapter Tactic your transports also mess with the opponent's leadership. Rhinos are going to be a huge boon to Nightlords imho.

 

Rhino rush with msu, flyers and dropping some plasma toting terminators on the flank that needs it most.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Aothaine

[OnboardG1]

This made me think, how will you model Night Lord berserkers, so they are both Khornate and VIII Legion/VIII Legion new recruits? 

 

Googling I found the following unsatisfactory painting examples:

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/7/21/122378_sm-Khorne%20Berserker%201.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mine are similar to this. I really don't like the bunny ears and I wish I'd hacked them off. For the next unit I'm going to kitbash the Berzerker kit with some MkIVs from the Calth set (although I might buy some mkIIIs for the job too), mainly because of how much I disliked the first Berzerker kit I built (too fiddly, silly poses, casting problems, silly ears). The weapons are really nice though at least so I suspect I'll mainly be using those. Maybe I'll turn the rest into Possessed or Havocs or something.

 

Isn't chapter tactic only for Infantry, Bike and dread units?

Edited September 6, 2017 by OnboardG1

[MyD4rkPassenger]

I hacked the ears off mine and painted their gauntlets red.  Fluff wise I say the crazies were marked for death and locked away, let out as shock troops.

[the jeske]

I remember, through the mists of time, a NL logo that was half batskull half khorn icon.

^^^^^
Well then it wouldn't be a Night lords force now would it

It is a set of rules. At least in 2 codex you could have had infiltrating NL. The models are not going to burst in flames, because rules X going to be used for them. Specially when through index GW encourages the use of cult units in non cult legions.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I remember, through the mists of time, a NL logo that was half batskull half khorn icon.

 

^^^^^

Well then it wouldn't be a Night lords force now would it ;)

 

It is a set of rules. At least in 2 codex you could have had infiltrating NL. The models are not going to burst in flames, because rules X going to be used for them. Specially when through index GW encourages the use of cult units in non cult legions.

I tend to agree. My red corsair force will use the legion traits of anyone if I so choose. Infiltrating corsairs, terror corsairs, "red" legion corsairs lead by Huron Ascendant(abaddon rules), siege breaking corsairs, sorcerific corsairs...

[OnboardG1]

I hacked the ears off mine and painted their gauntlets red.  Fluff wise I say the crazies were marked for death and locked away, let out as shock troops.

 

That's a good shout on the red gauntlets, didn't think about that one.

 

Here are mine by the way.

 

Edited September 6, 2017 by OnboardG1

[Brother Aiwass]

 

I remember, through the mists of time, a NL logo that was half batskull half khorn icon.

^^^^^

Well then it wouldn't be a Night lords force now would it

It is a set of rules. At least in 2 codex you could have had infiltrating NL. The models are not going to burst in flames, because rules X going to be used for them. Specially when through index GW encourages the use of cult units in non cult legions.

I tend to agree. My red corsair force will use the legion traits of anyone if I so choose. Infiltrating corsairs, terror corsairs, "red" legion corsairs lead by Huron Ascendant(abaddon rules), siege breaking corsairs, sorcerific corsairs...

 

That's the spirit, you damned renegade :lol:

[Withershadow]

One of the better units seems Nurgle Raptors with an Icon. That's -3 Ld just from that unit alone. Add the Warlord with Lord of Terror and that's -4 with two dice.

 

Regarding question in OP, berserkers are awesome in any guise but perhaps less so as Night Lords. The -1 to hit stratagem can help them cross the table, but they don't really need the Ld shenanigans when anything they touch tends to die anyway.

 

Otherwise, I gotta echo the previous comments. Screening doesn't work. Running melee units without deep strike or a transport doesn't work.

 

Just want to point out that according to the Night Lords Chapter Tactic your transports also mess with the opponent's leadership. Rhinos are going to be a huge boon to Nightlords imho.

 

Rhino rush with msu, flyers and dropping some plasma toting terminators on the flank that needs it most.

This is false. Legion traits only buff Infantry, Bikers, and Helbrutes. Edited September 7, 2017 by Withershadow

[the jeske]

to be more precise about the screening thing. It doesn't work when used by melee armies, it works fine for shoty armies when used vs shoty armies, and sometimes crippling vs melee armies. That is slight problem some melee armies in8th have. Having 2-3 uber melee units or an uber chopper HQ means nothing, when you have to plow through 50-60 models that are worth next to nothing, but stop your army from working.

[Archaeinox]

I wish more people used them. I thought GW said more folks would be bringing CSM? Nice to see someone sticking to the CSM gun

 

The other Chaos player in my group has 2 units of cultists and a 5man unit of CSM as his Troops, then all the FW fliers he can add.

 

"Night Lords"

Edited September 7, 2017 by Archaeinox

[Magnus Thane]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I'm mostly trying to figure out how to get melee CSM's, Zerkers and especially the Dark Vengeance Chosen to work without using the 'boxes'.
I really like the idea of zipping around with Raptors (and maybe Warp Talons) while having Elite Night Lords slam into the enemy, backed up by Havoks/Hellbrutes.

 

Just finding it difficult to figure out how make it work. :(

[Aothaine]

Just finding it difficult to figure out how make it work.

 

The problem you are going to have is that without the Rhinos your CSMs are going to be exposed to all the small arms fire before they can get in close. Now if you want them to be a mid ranged unit, you can foot slog them but they will still be exposed. Vehicles are really important in this edition as it gives you a chance to get your gribblies where you need them to be.

 

And Night Lords can make excellent use of the Rhinos for more than just eating overwatch too.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Aothaine