Questions: Fielding Night Lord 'zekers' and generic Marines

[OnboardG1]

 

And Night Lords can make excellent use of the Rhinos for more than just eating overwatch too.

 

 

No more so than anyone else I'd think, beyond the short range of the NL leadership debuff. 

 

Not that there aren't a million and one things that you can do with a rhino, normally themed around how good a barricade the old box is.

[Aothaine]

 

 

And Night Lords can make excellent use of the Rhinos for more than just eating overwatch too.

 

 

No more so than anyone else I'd think, beyond the short range of the NL leadership debuff. 

 

Not that there aren't a million and one things that you can do with a rhino, normally themed around how good a barricade the old box is.

 

 

The leadership debuff is exactly why they are so much better in Night Lords armies. It makes them be something other than a transport & overwatch wall. It increases their value.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Aothaine

[OnboardG1]

 

 

 

And Night Lords can make excellent use of the Rhinos for more than just eating overwatch too.

 

 

No more so than anyone else I'd think, beyond the short range of the NL leadership debuff. 

 

Not that there aren't a million and one things that you can do with a rhino, normally themed around how good a barricade the old box is.

 

 

The leadership debuff is exactly why they are so much better in Night Lords armies. It makes them be something other than a transport & overwatch wall. It increases their value.

 

 

They don't confer the leadership debuff because they don't have the Infantry, Bike or Helbrute keyword.

[Lord Abaia]

 

 

 

 

 

And Night Lords can make excellent use of the Rhinos for more than just eating overwatch too.

 

No more so than anyone else I'd think, beyond the short range of the NL leadership debuff.

 

Not that there aren't a million and one things that you can do with a rhino, normally themed around how good a barricade the old box is.

The leadership debuff is exactly why they are so much better in Night Lords armies. It makes them be something other than a transport & overwatch wall. It increases their value.

Only infantry, bikers, helbrutes, and daemon princes benefit from legion traits.

 

Night Lords rhinos aren't spooky, AL rhinos aren't sneaky, IW rhinos don't ignore cover, etc.

[Withershadow]

to be more precise about the screening thing. It doesn't work when used by melee armies, it works fine for shoty armies when used vs shoty armies, and sometimes crippling vs melee armies. That is slight problem some melee armies in8th have. Having 2-3 uber melee units or an uber chopper HQ means nothing, when you have to plow through 50-60 models that are worth next to nothing, but stop your army from working.

Screening doesn't even really work for shooting armies.  If you can draw LOS to something, you can shoot it regardless of how many other models are in the way.  Shooting armies have the same issues because if they can see you to shoot you, you can see them to shoot back.

[the jeske]

It works for shoty armies vs melee ones. Melee lists that are swarm themselfs requirer precise use of deep strike to take out support units and to get units off objectives[as unlike shoty armies they can not leave stuff behind, as they won't be able to reach it later most of the time]. All of this is impossible to do when chaff is used properly and very hard to do, if it is used but not to full efficiency.

[Withershadow]

So we're not at all talking about screening then (in the traditional sense of preventing shooting), but rather speed bumps. Also depending on your placement, multi charging can circumvent some of these tactics.

[the jeske]

It was always called screening or chaff since at least 2ed w40k and 4ed WFB. What you call screening what LoS blocking or stuff like rhino sniping[when rules made it possible in 3ed for example].

[Ghorgul]

You should still use Rhinos, even though you state you dislike them. Footslogging your marines at enemy is not smart move, as most people seem to be hoarding Heavy Bolters or Assault Cannons or equivalents, mostly against hordes, but these same weapons are pointswise very efficient against MEQs too, even more so against Berserkers. Bringing few rhinos with predators or other vehicles however is good as HBs and ACs really are not efficient against T7 3+ save units. Although here the key is to have several similar vehicles, if you bring only 1-2 rhinos with berserkers inside, of course enemy is going to shoot every available&suitable weapon at these. And any ok list should be able destroy atleast 1 rhino per turn.

My current Night Lords list I'm building up is with Storm Eagle and 1-2 rhinos and predator, originally I started with just 1 Storm Eagle, but with current rules/upcoming rules of low drop number not securing me the 1st turn, I had to increase amount of vehicles. Loading up scary assault force in just single Storm Eagle will just lead to enemy shooting everything at it if they get the 1st turn.

 

Kharybdis/Dreadclaw are nice, but Kharybdis is clearly superior to Dreadclaw, can't even argue about this. Dreadclaw is barely useable at current price (and it should be dropped to somewhere around 150-180 in Chapter Approved if you ask me). Main reason it doesn't work is the fact that 9" charge is very unlikely to pull off without Warpspeed, and even Icon of Wrath 'Zerkerks will struggle. I mean it can happen, but it's not very likely. Kharybdis can atleast shoot a lot anyway, and with Kharybdis' 20 Transport capacity dropping down 3x5 Berserkers (3 charges with re-rolls = you are far more likely to get succesful charge) + Lord + Sorcerer with warptime on KAC is more justified as the unit is real beast in melee, which can't be said of the Dreadclaw. It is just ridiculous how much better KAC is compared to Dreadclaw with just +100 increase in points.

Dreadclaw could work with 2x5 Berserkers and Jump-pack sorcerer deployed from reserves to cast warptime on it. Also other good option for this I'm considering is 2x5 Plasma-Havocs/Combi-Plasma Chosen.

 

Personally I would get Kharybdis, but it is not in my immediate purchase list, I got Storm Eagle as it can be proxied as Fire Raptor in friendly games. And I happen to own a dreadclaw already, so I am experimenting with it, trying to find some uses. It just isn't very good unit, although I do love the model, much better looking than Kharybdis if you ask me. The dreadclaw is already huge (seriously you could transport about 3 Land Raiders with the space required) and annoying to transport, I would imagine Kharybdis is even worse, as it's almost 1.5-2x the size.

 

TL;DR option: Don't footslog berserkers, most armies can remove them too easy. Instead get few Rhinos or Kharybdis. Equipmentwise I would just go with the cheapest loadout, although chainsword + chainaxe is the most effective, but for most purposes cheapest will do just fine. Get fist for champion always, that's what I do. My berserkers are FW Legion Mark V assault squads, I have and I am magnetizing their backpacks to dual-purpose them as both Raptors and Berserkers, so I can play around with different army compositions.