Ravenwing bikes: special weapons

[Helycon]

So, I still have some Ravenwing bikes I should build that also includes adding their special weapons. Since grab was the go-to for 7th, I have two of those at the readyand built, before 8th hit. I also have the Dark Vengeance plasma gun biker.

 

I do have room for 2 more though, and I'm thinking to equip them with meltaguns, now that attack bikes have lost their charm. It's a cheap way to get meltas in range.

 

How have you equipped your bikers? Any advice or experience from recent games? View on attack bikes? Wait for the codex? Are bikes even worth it at all for now?

[Komodo]

Mine are still a mix of grav and melta with one DV plasmagunner. Didn't had a chance to play them yet.

[MoK]

Plasma and Melta. All of them are the old DA RW metal torso/gun models.

[Syphid]

I was thinking of trying out flamers now. In previous editions I never used them because you couldn't fire template weapons if you jinked, but now you can fire flamers with no penalty after Advancing!

[dtse]

Plasma

[Komodo]

I personally don't think of having plasma-heavy loadout for regular ravendudes.

Plasma talons on Black Knights -- in-built awesomeness. 

Flamers do sound good now.

One of great things for regular squads -- Combi-weapons don't suck now, so sergeant can be effective third special weapon guy, why wasting it on plasma if we already have plasmatalons on black knight bikes.

[Helycon]

Plasma

Care to elaborate?

[Mattias]

To make the best use of the jink rule it would seem to make sense to pick Assault weapons, to effectively get a 20" move and a 5++ and still be able to fire, so I had been looking at Melta or Flamer, not tried them out on the table yet though, as our Bikes seem overpriced currently (gven that Codex equivalents dropped in price).

 

Flamer seems interesting with the auto hits and overwatch defence, but again I am just not convinced the damage output of 3 bikes (Combi-Flamer and 2 Flamers) is worth the points.

[Helycon]

Thanks for the replies all.

 

Flamers seemed good to start with, this edition, but the randomness is killing them for me. When you need that big hit, they don't deliver. It would work well with Jink, though.

 

Meltas are great as assault weapons and Jink, but at that point, a multi melta is just as good, due to it's range and it hits on the same diceroll. I was more thinking to tie up vehicles with them.

 

I'm curious about dtse's reasoning for plasma though.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Plasmas do have same range as twin bolters on the bikes and add to the quantity of fire. Melta suffered a blow in terms of power, flamers are too short ranged and grav also got toned down. So by exclusion, plasmas seem to be the best option. Alaska biker will put 4 bolter shots and 2 plasma shots at 12" which is pretty nice. If you really need it, plasma can also be charged to deal with extra pesky targets.

That's my reasoning.

[Komodo]

Chaplain Lucifer, are you allowed to shoot both bolters and special weapon? That's awesome.

 

Grav is toned down for good. Still quite good anti light-vehicle.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Don't quote me on that because I am 2 months without playing so my memory cogitators can be rusty, but I think so, you can indeed fire the bike bolters and the plasma guns. But it's better to double check.

[Helycon]

You can fire both, yes. You can't fire a y pistols though, unless you forego all other shooting, or you do it whilst engaged in CC.

 

I see the merit of plasma having the same range. I'll check if the points cost is worth it.

 

Keep the discussion going folks :)

Edited September 6, 2017 by Helycon

[Komodo]

Pointwise BK are just a tad bit (7 pts) more expensive than a bike squad with 2 plasmas and a combi-plasma on sergeant. 

 

1) 6 wounds total vs 4 wounds on regular bikes

2) Actually able to do damage in Assault (twice as many attacks than compared to Bike squad).

3)  Always two shots up to 18 inches and talons are assault weapon.

[dtse]

Plasma. As above. That's why you run you plasmas on scions. Why you put plasma on redemptors. Why hellblsters are even semi worth considering. Plasma is the new grav

 

Good range and combined with a reroll character can be relatively safely overcharged to do good damage sounding most tanks on 3s and negating most saves. Good against infantry by overcharged and good against TEQ and dreads and tanks. It's just super versatile.

 

Melta is too short. Even shorter if you want melta rule which is really what makes it good. Grav is still good but for the points I'd rather higher strength same AP and more reliable damage rather than d3. I wouldn't build for jink. Most things that are targeting yourbikes gives you -1 or -2 so your on a 5+ save anyway. If you happen to advance then it's a bonus. Flamers are good but weak and super short range. If I'm charging you I just stay outside of 8" to negate your flamer overwatch.

 

So that's my thinking. And play experience plasma trumps melta. I've since replaced most of my melta bikers withplasma. (Although my bikers in general have not seen much play....but that's a different story!)

[ShadowCore67]

Pointwise BK are just a tad bit (7 pts) more expensive than a bike squad with 2 plasmas and a combi-plasma on sergeant.

 

1) 6 wounds total vs 4 wounds on regular bikes

2) Actually able to do damage in Assault (twice as many attacks than compared to Bike squad).

3) Always two shots up to 18 inches and talons are assault weapon.

Problem is BKs lose the twin boltguns. Yeah they have better melee but bike units are ultimately shooty now and when you have that much plasma you dont wanna be getting in combat anyway, especially since we can't hit and run anymore.

[Helycon]

Thanks for the explanation of your earlier comment.

 

I reckon I'll model them without the hand/gun for now and wait for the codex, but plasma does seem the way to go. They get too close in points to a RBK though, which are a lot more versatile. Maybe bikes get some fun rules back when our codex drops, such as hit and run for the <Ravenwing> keyword. 

 

Feel free to keep posting game experience and opinions of course! 

[Komodo]

Thanks guys, 3 plas on bikes do look quite good after your explanations. Will give it a try.