Thoughts on Exalted Champion

[Fhanados]

Greetings Brethren!

 

One of the things I was most excited about with the new Chaos codex was the return of a Lieutenant style HQ. Something below a Lord, but similar enough to fill the same role on a budget. Well we basically got that, a mini Lord type character with a slant towards chopping up enemy characters. I like it. I like it's rules, I like it's feel, I like how it fits into an aggressive combat oriented army and I'm in love with the model (aka the-model-formerly-known-as-Aspiring-Champion). But is it worth it?

 

The Champion has a nifty aura to re-roll wounds, but unlike his Loyalist counterpart it only works in the Fight phase. He makes up for this by being able to reroll hits (melee AND shooting) against Characters. So he's a bit of a duelist, Emperor's Champion style. I like it. His base points cost is really decent I feel, but it's when you start comparing him to other HQs that perform a similar function he seems... OK I guess? Arguably, its closest competitors in terms of battlefield role and unit synergy are Lords and Dark Apostles, so let's start with them as a comparison.

 

The Lord is our big guy, the main Infantry Character HQ we have. It has access to Terminator Armour and Jump Packs which already add a bit of extra something. I'm fine with that. It has a slightly better stat line with better BS, better Ld and an extra wound and a 4+ invulnerable save. No problems there. The Lord has the reroll 1s to hit aura, which from my experience is very useful. Truth be told I haven't used the Champ in game yet, but I so rarely get into combat I really feel like an aura that helps with shooting as well as combat has better general use. That's all fine, I expect the Lord to be good. But all these extras comes at the whopping great price of... 4pts.

 

I could give both the Champion and the lord literally the exact same equipment and the Lord would be better at shooting, hit more reliably in combat, and be harder to kill. For 4pts.

 

Now let us turn our gaze to the Dark Apostle, our friendly evil Chaplain equivalent. The Apostle has 1 less attack, 1 extra Ld and is locked in to a Power Maul as it's close combat weapon (but can swap out the pistol for a combi weapon if you choose). The Apostle gets an aura to reroll all hits in combat while the Champion rerolls wounds. Someone smarter than me could do some math to figure out which is better but I consider it largely a wash, although with both the Apostle and Champ hitting on 2+ themselves I feel this comes down to whoever they're running support for. The Apostle also has a leadership bubble, which may or may not be useful depending on your list. Oh and he has that wonderful 4+ invulnerable. This time he's only 2pts more than the Champ.

 

I expected the Champion to be similar to the Dark Apostle, they're both what I'd refer to as "second in command" support HQs. What I didn't expect was that the Lord would be so close in cost to both the Apostle and the Champ, and really feel like it overshadows both of them. When I'm making a list it feels like when I'm trying to fit in an Apostle or Champ the question "why not take a Lord?" is just hovering there in the corners. I'm not crying out to nerf the Lord, I think it's about right where it is. I just don't feel like there's enough of a points difference OR performance difference to really justify the Champion.

 

What do you all think? Has anyone used the Exalted Champion with any success?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The Champion will outperform the Lord in close combat vs characters. Otherwise the Lord wins.

 

The question is really what's best as a second HQ. I'd argue the Champion is better than the Dark Apostle, especially if you already have a lord or prince giving re-roll of 1's. I also think that re-roll to wounds is better than to hit in many cases, as most of our army already hits on 3's, but wounds on 4's or higher.

 

Lord+Champ is better than Lord+Apostle or Champ+Aposte. Or Daemon Prince instead of Lord, as they have the same auras.

[adreal]

If I was running a more combat focused chaos army, I would go Lord, champion, and two sorcerers, but I usually try to avoid combat and let my plasma guns do the talking

[OPTIMVSCHRISTVS]

Depends on the type of army you're running. In a close combat oriented army, the Champ and the Apostle are both worth taking over the lord imo, and I regularly run both at the same time. Nothing quite as satisfying as catching a unit of Berzerkers in the reroll to hit and reroll to wound aura at the same time...

[Galron]

I prefer having big guns and shooting the hell out of things so its lord + DP for my army. DP fills the role of counter puncher while the lord helps the big guns. In bigger games I use a second lord for DSing in with the terminators to boost their combi weapons when it is needed most. I don't have a single use for a champ character.

[Lord Abaia]

The only thing holding me back from adding an Exalted Champion to my army is the lack of jump pack or TDA options (a bike or steed is obviously right out). He wants to be in or around CC, but he's stuck either walking or riding in a transport, which would be okay I guess, except that it screws up the clown car routine I've come to love.

 

When the codex came out I bought the Aspiring Champion model, fully intending to make him a Champion, but now I think I'd rather stick a jump pack on him and run him as a second sorcerer, or leave him on foot and use him as a backline Lord to support my ranged units.

[Khornestar]

Lack of an invuln save on the champ is the worst part, IMO. Unless the character he's fighting is weaker than him or will go down on the charge, he doesn't seem all that great to me. I do like the buff, though, because combining it with the Dark Apostle's is awesome.

[micahwc]

I've liked the idea of using both an apostle and a champion in my Alpha Legion lists. Drop 3 command points to infiltrate the 2 characters and a choppy close combat unit 9" away from a target before the game starts. Sounds evil if you get first turn. Cost a lot of resources but makes the champion and apostle useful.

[the jeske]

Lord=works always

DP=works always

Sorc=works always

E.Champ=works if the situation is right. both you and the opponent have to work to make it happen.

 

There for Lord >E.Champ

[bozo69pd]

I suspect the Exalted Champion is mostly there for narrative games and/or small points games.

[the jeske]

I think it is more the case of everyone getting something like them. Because for some armies the Lt lvl characters are good, while others get stuff like we do [GK ancients for example].

[Brother Aiwass]

I feel he is a buff/support character for lords and zerkers. He is ok (and no, not the ultimate character hunter xD) and his aura is nice, and he also have a minor bonus to fight other characters (which shouldn't be used, because that means he'll likely die as he don't have an invuln) but can make lords, zerkers and other CQC heavy hitters more deadly. For an assault army (i.e. AL, WE or Renegades) it have its place, for other armies may be situational.

 

It's cheap, and can do nasty things; AL with Blade of the Hydra, anyone else with Black Mace, or failing that, the AoBF, but you better don't make your battle plan around him because it'll probably end in tears.

[Fhanados]

Good responses from all, and kinda what I was expecting. When I heard we were getting a Lieutenant-level character I was pretty excited. I thought we'd have a cheap alternative to a Lord or our typically expensive support HQs but what we ended up with was essentially a combat focused Lord restricted to Power Armour without an invulnerable save. Historically I have a strong slant towards combat in my lists so I'll probably find somewhere for him at some point. I really liked the idea of using the Dark Vengeance Chosen in a Rhino with an Apostle and Exalted Champ but that wound up at almost 500pts so maybe that can stay on the shelf for narrative games...

[Raven1]

I think exalted champions are finding most use coupled with khorne Berzerkers in tandem with the dark apostle since some many dice can be re-rolles.

[Iron Cookie]

I think exalted champions are finding most use coupled with khorne Berzerkers in tandem with the dark apostle since some many dice can be re-rolles.

Thats exactly what i do!

 

Its always Good to re-roll everything lol

[Prot]

I think the Exalted Champion is a perfect segway into an extra detachment for that extra CP. yea he might not have a huge role sometimes but at least he's not a bad 'tax' unit.

[OnboardG1]

I'm going to run one with the NL Claws and a DA to back him up, in the Khorne Party Bus. In a smallish game that's a great beat stick.

[Fhanados]

I've seen a few people say the Exalted Champion is a good alternative to a Lord in smaller games. Can anyone elaborate on this? The points gap between the two is so minimal I that I just can't wrap my head around that statement.

 

Coupling him with an Apostle with Berzerkers seems pretty brutal. I guess he's a good alternative to a Lord when trying to fill out extra detachments just to bring that little extra variety in auras to stack.

[the jeske]

Only he is not a good alternative, or it is one of those "well he is overcosted a bit, and can't do X,Y and Z, but I still think he is good" kind of being good.

[OnboardG1]

I've seen a few people say the Exalted Champion is a good alternative to a Lord in smaller games. 

 

Only if you're playing a very melee focused army I'd think. Even then, you're probably running Berzerkers who are more likely to benefit from a reroll to hit rather than a reroll to wound making a DA or Lord the better choice. He feels more like a complimentary buff character to a Lord or DA where they can buff each other and confer multiple bonuses to several units (for instance two rhinos with nine berzerkers and a character in each).

[the jeske]

Maybe in narrative games, when you represent a new renegade force that does not have enough chaos back story yet to warrent a sorc/lord/DP? does not have much to do with gaming, but it could be a reason someone takes him .

[Closet Skeleton]

Exalted Champions are a lot better than Lords against high toughness targets. That's another area where the EC is a lot more situational but when you have to tear through Knights in melee its a godsend.

 

The Exalted Champion's main weakness is that you can't make him more expensive by giving up a jump pack or the ability to teleport, so his similar value to the naked lord is irrelevant to me.

 

The Lord's BS2+ only matters if you buy him an expensive combi-weapon.

 

But generally ECs are second HQs, the fact that you need two HQs for a battalion really changes how 'cheap' HQs work in small games.

 

Loyalist lieutenants are cheaper but I don't think they make good HQs in small games either. If I'm not taking a battalion so I'm only taking 1 HQ I'm taking a expensive librarian not a lieutenant. The Exalted Champion has an extra attack over a lieutenant and since they're also the exact same cost as a primaris lieutenant they're basically swapping a wound for the rerolls against characters rule.

 

Exalted Champions also don't have to buy a masterwork bolter. This isn't really an advantage since masterwork bolters are cheap and good but it does affect the actual final cost comparisons.

[Trevak Dal]

If I was running a more combat focused chaos army, I would go Lord, champion, and two sorcerers, but I usually try to avoid combat and let my plasma guns do the talking

"I thought I'd Mix things up, Maybe shoot my way out." As a video game character said once.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Trevak Dal

[Panzer]

 

The Exalted Champion's main weakness is that you can't make him more expensive by giving up a jump pack or the ability to teleport, so his similar value to the naked lord is irrelevant to me.

 

I'd say the Exalted Champions main weakness is him not having any invul save tho. ^^

[Sception]

I love the idea of the Exalted champion, and will probably try to use one in my own Black Legion from time to time.  Especially after ADB's last novel, which put a lot of emphasis on the symbolic & cultural importance of ritualized duels within Chaos Marine society generally.  But in practice on the game table?

 

First, despite being noticeably less powerful, he's not really any cheaper than a lord, so he doesn't really help fill that need for a cheaper hero in tiny games.  Second, he's a melee & short range melee buff aura hero without in-built delivery, which means he relies on transportation, which sucks because none of our common transports have extra space for HQs.  Lords and sorcerers can get around this by deep striking with jump packs or terminator armor, but apostles, champions, and smiths have a real hard time of it.  These two issues make it difficult to use him as intended, even if he were good at stuff otherwise.

 

While the trade off between loyalist lieutenants and exalted champ auras - that the loyalist's aura re-rolls ones to wound all the time, while the champ re-rolls all failed wounds, but only for melee attacks - seems fine in principle, the fact that it is difficult and dangerous and game-time consuming to get the champ into melee range while the lieutenant can be supporting ranged units from turn one with no hassle at all makes things actually very lopsided.

 

The designers seem to understand this, because the Champ tries to make up the difference with a secondary role as a duelist and character hunter, which again conceptually is fine and good.  Great even - duels between champions are a major aspect of Chaos fluff.  But once again the difficulty delivering him to melee range, let alone melee range of a character that doesn't actually want to be there, really hurts the usefulness of these abilities.  Worse, the chaos armory is even more lacking for duelist builds in 8th edition than it was in 6th and 7th, with no artificer armor (outside of iron warrior relics), and no melee weapon superior to a common power weapon or fist outside of a limited selection of artefacts, and not not even any invulnerable saves.  If our exalted champions could take master crafted power weapons and storm shields, or even combat shields, then their abilities as duelists might come close to justifying the difficulty in delivering them, but as it is re-rolls to hit and wound against other heroes won't make up for the fact that they're trying to fight HQ level threats with squad leader level equipment.

 

 

All in all, exalted champions are pretty lackluster, a fantastic idea in terms of fluff and narrative with mechanical implementation that comes close to the right idea yet still managing to fall short at each and every turn.  They're a weaker hero filling a needed subcommander role... but without an actual price discount to make them any more affordable than a regular lord in smaller games.  They're a melee buff hero without the tools needed to keep up with our melee threats.  They're an expert duelist stuck with layman's tools.

 

To be actually good, Exalted Champions really need the following changes:

* access to bikes, terminator armor, and/or jump packs; and/or increase transport capacity of rhinos & land raiders to 12.

* grant exalted champions (and just exalted champions) access to master crafted power weapons

* give exalted champions an invulnerable save, or give them (and, again, just them) access to combat and/or storm shields

 

And while they don't need it to function, it would also be cool & fluffy to make the Chaos Boon stratagem free when used on an Exalted Champion.

 

I would also make the Exalted Champ's base cost cheaper so that they could function more as a low level commander in small games, with the added price of their fancy exclusive equipment putting them back around their current price in regular and larger sized games.

 

.................................

 

In the mean time, they're noticeably lackluster, but not completely unfieldable, though the ways to reasonably use them are limited.  Berzerkers like having them around, and also aren't hurt too badly by giving up the clown car.  You miss out on a squad leader, but don't lose squad upgrades as well, and zerks attack enough in close combat that the wound re-rolls are really felt.  A rhino with 8 zerks, an apostle, and an exalted can get some work done, especially if it's flanked by another rhino or two with 5 zerks plus 5 CSMs or havocs or more zerks.  This obviously works better for legions that make better use of zerkers - specifically the world eaters who get them as troops, or renegades that can run & charge out of their rhinos with them (and have more need of wound buffs since they can't use 'veterans of the long war'), or especially Alpha Legion who can skip the rhinos and just pay a few command points to infiltrate a big unit of zerkers plus a supporting hero or two.  Regardless, if you do take an exalted champion I'd strongly recommend giving him an artefact weapon of some kind if you have any intention of using him against other heroes, even if it means burning a command point to do it.

Edited September 8, 2017 by malisteen