New Army (possibly)

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So before even 8th edition dropped, I had been considering doing this. I have never been a Chaos player, but have wanted a chaos army for variety and for my friends to use when we play.

 

I decided that my favorite punching bag would be Slaanesh. I've been around the game since 3rd edition, so I remember the old Garish 80's Hair Metal noise Marines, and they were glorious. I've seen them evolve, for better or worse, and I'm kinda like the new style and the idea of a rolling rave party.

 

The core of my army would be noise marines. 2 squads of 10 in land raiders, plus a foot slogging 20 man squad, backed up by a couple of 40 man blobs of cultists and 30 strong unit of Daemonettes. This would be supported by 2 full squads of chaos bikers, and 2 sorcerers on bikes. 

 

Other than the fact that I like these selections I don't really have a solid basis for their use. Would this be an army you'd play or think playing against would be fun?

[the jeske]

Are the Land Raiders obligatory? Because maybe before buying them, try them out, maybe in your enviroment they are going to work. Because for most people they don't. Also sorc are not what they were. Am not saying that you shouldn't use them, but maybe try one sorc and something else. DP for example are really good this editon[and you would have money saved for him, if you didn't start your army building with 2 land raiders]. You could even "proxy" the DP with a keeper of secrets, this way you could sometime run a demon detachment with the 30 netts you want to run.

 

Also those 10/20 man squads are those of marines or NM? Because NM are vastly superior as shoting goes, and good in melee too. Just not at the same time. They also don't synergise well LR [the shoty NM at least] .

 

Also as far as good slanesh unit goes, havocks are good, predators are good over all for chaos. If you plan to do more melee, raptors could be an option.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Are the Land Raiders obligatory? Because maybe before buying them, try them out, maybe in your enviroment they are going to work. Because for most people they don't. 

As for the Land Raiders being obligatory, yes and no. Yes, because I like Land Raiders and I want to try to do a Noise Marine inspired Slaaneshi Land Raider as a modelling project, but at the same time, no, they're not because I realize that there are better tanks and better transports. I just think it was a cool concept for a party bus.

 

 

Also sorc are not what they were. Am not saying that you shouldn't use them, but maybe try one sorc and something else. DP for example are really good this editon[and you would have money saved for him, if you didn't start your army building with 2 land raiders]. You could even "proxy" the DP with a keeper of secrets, this way you could sometime run a demon detachment with the 30 netts you want to run.

For Now the Sorcerers were a placeholder. Really I wanted to try to do "Doomrider" as my HQ choice. I know he doesn't have a model, and yes I know his head is a display piece in the White Scars Fortress Monastery, but hes cool and I've wanted to do a conversion for him for a while now. I just haven't quite figured out how to proxy him. The Daemonettes were there more or less as an afterthought, it just sort of fit with the theme.

 

 

Also those 10/20 man squads are those of marines or NM? Because NM are vastly superior as shoting goes, and good in melee too. Just not at the same time. They also don't synergise well LR [the shoty NM at least] .

Well, I intended the 10/20 man squads to be sonic blaster/blastmaster squads. I don't know if that makes them shooty or choppy, I thought shooty. Now, I could change the 10 man land raider squads to be choppy with chainswords so they synergize better (and cost less points), and then have the 20 man squad be the Sonic squad for fire support. 

 

 

Also as far as good slanesh unit goes, havocks are good, predators are good over all for chaos. If you plan to do more melee, raptors could be an option.

As this is a themed army, I was thinking that it might be fun to have a raving horde of drug crazed sex fiends rushing at the opponent. So more melee is what I was thinking, my unit choices seem to favor that a bit more. Big thing is that I was trying to fit this in a single Battalion Detachment, because I don't want this to be a huge collection like my Space Wolves and Imperial Guard. 

 

Bear in mind this is intended to be a fun army, not intended for high level tournament play or anything more than just to goof around and have some fun with, and build some intricate and cool looking models. 

[Azekai]

Wasn't Doomrider an actual daemon prince? I would just plunk him and his bike down on a 60mm base and call him a daemon prince in 8th. Maybe have him popping a wheelie so his profile isn't super low to the ground. Then when he 'flies' it is just him riding his bike over or through whatever gets in his way.

The guy does what he wants. He comes, he goes, he's Doomrider.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Wasn't Doomrider an actual daemon prince? I would just plunk him and his bike down on a 60mm base and call him a daemon prince in 8th. Maybe have him popping a wheelie so his profile isn't super low to the ground. Then when he 'flies' it is just him riding his bike over or through whatever gets in his way.

 

The guy does what he wants. He comes, he goes, he's Doomrider.

See, that's what I was thinking, but the gear that Daemon Princes get didn't seem quite right. But I suppose one has to adapt to the times. I was thinking Daemon Prince with Wings, I think that's where you were also going. I was also Planning on having him "surfing" the bike doing the wheelie. Head aflame and everything. This would be challenging all of my modelling skill so I need to get my other projects done first. 

[Raven1]

Doomrider was an actual deamon prince, back when demonic stature didn't automatically come with princehood.  As for the wings part, I know Doomrider didnt have a jetbike, but maybe model him with a jetbike.  It would increase the overall size and dimensions of the model and make him stand out from other bike infantry.  Also maybe use the same size base as a demonprince so his in game footprint isnt different.

[Sagentus]

LRs are a personal preference imo, yes there are better transports but they cos a lot both points wise and money. Could always convert a LR into a spartan, they seem to be one of the best transports.

 

EC defo seem a lot more competitive this edition, which is great to see, but as a suggestion is it worth considering a khorne detachment at some point to bring in the beserkers? As they can be your close combat and your ec can sit back and blast sonic weapons

[the jeske]

EC defo seem a lot more competitive this edition, which is great to see, but as a suggestion is it worth considering a khorne detachment at some point to bring in the beserkers?

 

 

no. Khorn/melee armies requier you to spend all the points on melee or melee support units. If you cut an EC list in half[or 2/3s] and slap on some zerkers, neither of the parts is going to be working very well Or to be more precise, you are going to feel as if you always want more noise marines and shoty support units, and zerkers will "feel" as if they were ending up dead too fast.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

LRs are a personal preference imo, yes there are better transports but they cos a lot both points wise and money. Could always convert a LR into a spartan, they seem to be one of the best transports.

I'd love to use spartans instead, but I haven't seen the rules on those for chaos. Also, Spartans are expensive, and Land Raiders are more available (in the States).

 

EC defo seem a lot more competitive this edition, which is great to see, but as a suggestion is it worth considering a khorne detachment at some point to bring in the beserkers? As they can be your close combat and your ec can sit back and blast sonic weapons

Eh, this was kinda meant to be just a single devotion army. I like using Slaanesh as a punching bag in the fluff I come up with for my other armies. Furthermore, Slaanesh is by far the most intriguing chaos god. Khorne is one dimensional, Nurgle is nuanced but disgusting, and Tzeentch is too capricious (I do like thousand sons though, and actually considered creating a 40k Loyalist group of them). Slaanesh is just appealing though, how insidious he/she/it is. Pleasure is what we base our lives around, but the temptation is to overindulge, and that's where Slaanesh gets you. Khorne just wants bloodshed, but Slaanesh wants you to enjoy it. Tzeentch wants you seek forbidden knowledge, slaanesh wants you to crave it. Nurgle wants your suffering, Slaanesh wants you to love it. What's more, Slaanesh want you to indulge it, all of it and do all of it more. I just think that focusing more on that as a theme for an army would be more fun (Our hobby is as much an art project as a game...).

 

 

no. Khorn/melee armies requier you to spend all the points on melee or melee support units. If you cut an EC list in half[or 2/3s] and slap on some zerkers, neither of the parts is going to be working very well Or to be more precise, you are going to feel as if you always want more noise marines and shoty support units, and zerkers will "feel" as if they were ending up dead too fast.

I think I understand your point, but just to be clear, by melee support do you mean transports to get them there or are you referring to something else? 

[the jeske]

I think I understand your point, but just to be clear, by melee support do you mean transports to get them there or are you referring to something else?

 

 

everything that is not moving at top speed to engage the enemy. So stuff like havocks/preds, A knight[which maybe going forward, but doesn't want to be in the first wave of attack], raptors etc. In general unless the transport is really good [or really cheap] I feel that if I take the transport points and use them on either an alfa strike unit or to take more squads of the melee kind, the list works better. To give a LR example. A melee army with 2-3 squads and 2 landraiders, under performs for me, when compared to armies that took those LR points and took extra squads.

 

Now if chaos had something like a storm raven, [good gunship, ok as far resilience goes, which makes it an ok transport] chaos armies could look different in their mass.

 

In fact I find shoting armies work better with transports [although we don't have a dual purpose one like a razorback], then melee ones. Melee armies just do not have the points to spare on stuff that may not be doing anything in turn 3+.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

I think I understand your point, but just to be clear, by melee support do you mean transports to get them there or are you referring to something else?

 

 

everything that is not moving at top speed to engage the enemy. So stuff like havocks/preds, A knight[which maybe going forward, but doesn't want to be in the first wave of attack], raptors etc. In general unless the transport is really good [or really cheap] I feel that if I take the transport points and use them on either an alfa strike unit or to take more squads of the melee kind, the list works better. To give a LR example. A melee army with 2-3 squads and 2 landraiders, under performs for me, when compared to armies that took those LR points and took extra squads.

 

Now if chaos had something like a storm raven, [good gunship, ok as far resilience goes, which makes it an ok transport] chaos armies could look different in their mass.

 

In fact I find shoting armies work better with transports [although we don't have a dual purpose one like a razorback], then melee ones. Melee armies just do not have the points to spare on stuff that may not be doing anything in turn 3+.

 

Ok I see what you mean now.

 

In general I like to have some balance  in my lists, because If I'm all in on melee then my dudes can't do anything except get shot by shooty armies. If I'm too focused on shooting, they can't do anything in CC. One reason I play SW is because of this balance. It's why I use Krieg rules for my IG. I'd probably have a bit of both in any chaos army. I like turn efficiency, do the most amount of damage in my turn as possible, and have all of my units doing their respective jobs in every phase of my turn.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Ulrik_Ironfist

[the jeske]

 

In general I like to have some balance  in my lists, because If I'm all in on melee then my dudes can't do anything except get shot by shooty armie

As a general rule, a melee army has to either break the rules of the game, be a point effiient swarm or cheat [like it is melee and has brutal shoting at the same time] to work in w40k.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

 

 

In general I like to have some balance  in my lists, because If I'm all in on melee then my dudes can't do anything except get shot by shooty armie

As a general rule, a melee army has to either break the rules of the game, be a point effiient swarm or cheat [like it is melee and has brutal shoting at the same time] to work in w40k.

 

I don't necessarily think that's true about your first point. But it's possible that I've never been up against a truly broken list. Points efficiency is something to strive for, not something to be derided, if you're simply better at seeing how to shave points here and there to fit something else into your army that's to be commended and learned from. As far as cheating (as you put it) I don't see that as cheating, unless rules are being explicitly broken to do so.