Redemptor Dread vs. Furioso... (and/or a Baal Pred)

[Eire]

I searched through the topics to see if I could find a good breakdown of one versus the other, why to take one or the other, or why the Furioso is so expensive for what it does.

 

Assuming the following:

 

- I have no Stormraven or drop pod to deliver the Furioso to get into CC fast

- Most of my current BA army is jump pack equipped (will try to upload a pic of my current 2k army) so it's not a static shooty army, i.e. I am looking for a static shooty item to hold the line in my deployment area

 

I keep looking at the equipment I would want to have on the Primaris Redempter Dread and the equipment on the Furioso, and the points just don't seem to make sense. I know that some believe the Furioso might get a slight point reduction, but looking at the stats of both I am just having a hard time justifying the Furioso over the new Redemptor Dread, with my aforementioned assumptions above. For starters the Redemptor gets +1S and +5W. Yes, it does get degradable WS/BS with loss of wounds, but goodness its tough for its point value. The Redemptor Dread even has more wounds than the Predator! Granted the Twin Assault Cannon is +1S better than the Heavy Onslaught Gatling Gun, but whew... Comparing the Furioso Fist to the Redemptor Fist, you are also getting similar statlines just changing the 3 damage to a D6 damage respectively.

 

If the short answer is GW wanted to sell new models, so they made the Redemptor shiny/tempting, that's cool. I am just curious what people think about the new Redemptor Dreadnought and if they shelved their Baal Preds/Furioso Dreads for it. Another item of note, in the Dark Angels Parking Lot type list, the Redempter Dreads seem absolutely devastating (Azrael w/Darkshroud +shooty).

 

Anyhow, thanks for reading, appreciate any insight, and I'll keep you all posted how they all play out!

 

 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Eire

[Prot]

Caveat: I don't play BA... but I know people who do.... And I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

That said I am not a huge fan of the Redemptor. I prefer the Ven Dread build, and the Contemptor second. The BS 2, WS 2 is huge. Almost everything that counts on the Redemptor gets penalized the second you move you're hitting on 4's. If you've hit the first Damage level, you're hitting on 5's!!! That's terrible. That's Ork BS, and you'd be surprised how quickly it happens.

I've played my two Redemptors throughout the Konor Campaign, here's how they are loaded:

Pretty opposite load outs. I take both in some games with Techpriests, I take singles in most games (both are too big of a point sink).

These guys are fun, and let you roll lots of dice, but it essentially boils down to a bunch of bolters, and heavy bolter rounds... Yes there's lots of them, but at around 200 points a dude, it's no dream unit.

[Ishagu]

I like the Redemptor. I use two on occasion as anti horde backfeld support units. I don't think they are fast enough to work as a unit you charge across the table into the enemy lines, but they work very well as a unit to meet the enemy in the middle or to support as backfield counter charge units. Imagine Nids are approaching your line, two Redemptors could potentially hit them with 60 or so shots before charging into CC. They really benefit from character re-roll auras that potentially limit their mobility. (I run both of mine with 2 Gatling Cannons and storm bolters)

 

I recommend the Chaplain Dreadnought. He's great for BA: Has WS, BS 2+, armed with a Twin Lascannon he's fantastic as he walks up the board. Because he's a 9 would characters he can't be shot at and he boosts the strength of units in combat.

 

It's worth making your Rhino into a Twin Lascannon Razorback. Always a useful choice, especially as your army is good at dealing with infantry in combat.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Ishagu

[Eire]

Thanks guys. I guess one thing I overlooked was that if I needed to move the Dread at all, I am only hitting on 4s. However, coming from many other 40K armies that already hit on 4s I guess I looked at that and thought "oh, so you mean like everything else I own :)".

 

Prot, I like those loadouts though, definitely varied options on each and can fulfill multi-roles easily.

 

Ishagu, definitely considered swapping that Rhino to the Razorback just didn't have time during FoK. Did well for moving that Tac squad with melta and Mephiston up the board on a flank though! Mission accomplished. I'll look into the Chappie Dread, that's the FW model yeah?

[Ishagu]

Yeah but he's not overly expensive to purchase providing you're not taxed on imports.

 

Brilliant unit, was one of the stars in my list at a highly competitive ITC Grand Tournament.

[Xenith]

The hitting on a 4+ if you move applies to everything but ravens and raiders, so you can cancel that out.

 

If you're looking for pure dakka, a raven is probably best for the points, followed by the crusader or maybe a asscan/storm bolter razor. The last two are probably reasonably even in terms of shots per point.

[Eire]

Thanks Xenith, that was similar to my thought as well about the 4+ if I moved. My LRC has done fantastic! Love that model too.

[Damon Nightman]

I think they mentioned the 4+ to hit on the move because some of their other suggestions were BS 2, so still hitting on 3+ while moving and don't have damage tables to possibly make it even worse.

[sebs_evo7]

Some of the deployments can reward furiosos

I am currently using two in my list, it's not efficient but i enjoy them

If it's a short deployment i advance them as quickly as possible. If I'm facing a deep striking army i position them in counter charge positions but you could argue a standard dread would perform this role better

If advancing them up the board the enemy has to direct fire into them

[Eire]

Yeah sebs, that's true. Maybe I can field both and use the Furioso as a 'distraction carnifex' type deal? :)

[Prot]

The hitting on a 4+ if you move applies to everything but ravens and raiders, so you can cancel that out.

 

If you're looking for pure dakka, a raven is probably best for the points, followed by the crusader or maybe a asscan/storm bolter razor. The last two are probably reasonably even in terms of shots per point.

 

Ven dreads and Contemptors (hitting on 2's, 3's if moving.). Plus speed is good here, and cost effective, and... I find I actually miss the Invulnerable (contemptor) on the Redemptor.

 

I wouldn't take a dread and move it that is meant to be a fire base that would 'hit on a 4 if it moves). Regular dreads also don't degrade.... I could go on, but my best advice would be to try them. I play Chaos as well and moving Helbrutes is a real pain... I make them firebases, or dirt cheap CC units. The Redemptor unfortunately tries to do everything. If I could rip the Icarus off, I would... moving and shooting the Icarus at non-fly units is ugly, especially if damaged.

[Eire]

Thanks Prot, great points, appreciate it.

 

I might shift the Redemptor over to my Dark Angels 'parking lot' build list since it's not put together yet. I have 4-5 Terminator squads to go with Belial and I have Azrael to sit with some Hellblasters/the Redemptor I suppose, and was going to get a Darkshroud. Seems like a fun and completely different style of play from my Blood Angels.

 

At the end of the day, I love playing with my current 2k list (the one pictured). I was going to change out my Tac squads for Scouts, Intercessors, or plus them up a little and shrink the DC. It's so much fun, and I love the look of them on the table. :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My beef with the redemptor is with those points he should be T7 with 2+.

[durdle-durdle]

Do blood angels get contemptors or Ven dreads? I don't see it, but I could be wrong. I haven't actually got my redemptor or repulsor in yet, but if you don't need more razors to transport things, and still want more bullets, I'd probably take the repulsor (though this is expensive points wise, 260-310 points) or if you want dakka that can also punch out tanks, the redemptor. Until/unless we get venerable dreads or points decreases on Baal preds, that would be my guess.

 

At least on paper, repulsor a look like they can vomit out an absurd amount of bullets.

[Frater Cornelius]

4+ isn't that big of a deal when you have full re-rolls. I am a fan of the full dakka Dread. Having said that, all those full dakka builds like the Repulsor and Redemptor only work well for me, because I tend to run UM with Guilliman. Without him, it is all shades of 'meh'. In comparison to the various BA Dreads, there is one simple question. Do you want a gun-loaded point to rally around that can also serve as a counter-assault unit? The Redepmtor is for you. Do you want to play proactively and get the jump on the opponent? The BA variant will do that better.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[Arkangilos]

Do blood angels get contemptors or Ven dreads? I don't see it, but I could be wrong. I haven't actually got my redemptor or repulsor in yet, but if you don't need more razors to transport things, and still want more bullets, I'd probably take the repulsor (though this is expensive points wise, 260-310 points) or if you want dakka that can also punch out tanks, the redemptor. Until/unless we get venerable dreads or points decreases on Baal preds, that would be my guess.

 

At least on paper, repulsor a look like they can vomit out an absurd amount of bullets.

Nope. Our ven dreads are the furiosos.

[Bremon]

They just aren't venerable enough for 2+ WS/BS for whatever reason.

[Arkangilos]

Yet. The next codex might fix that.

[Bremon]

True. I have high hopes for the codex.

[Damon Nightman]

I hope so! I find that soooo frustrating!

[Karhedron]

True. I have high hopes for the codex.

I want to believe!

 

And then I remember the last time we got our hopes up for a Codex. 

[Emissary]

 

Do blood angels get contemptors or Ven dreads? I don't see it, but I could be wrong. I haven't actually got my redemptor or repulsor in yet, but if you don't need more razors to transport things, and still want more bullets, I'd probably take the repulsor (though this is expensive points wise, 260-310 points) or if you want dakka that can also punch out tanks, the redemptor. Until/unless we get venerable dreads or points decreases on Baal preds, that would be my guess.

 

At least on paper, repulsor a look like they can vomit out an absurd amount of bullets.

Nope. Our ven dreads are the furiosos.

 

 

There's always the relic contemptors and contemptor mortis from the forgeworld index.  That's what I do with mine.

[Karhedron]

At least on paper, repulsor a look like they can vomit out an absurd amount of bullets.

 

And with POTMS, they can do so unrestricted by movement. Add to that, they can still fire if they withdraw from Combat thanks Fly, you have a unit that should be able to maintain its firepower pretty reliably.

 

It is expensive though, especially if you are not using its ability to transport Primaris Marines. I would probably go for the Storm Raven if mobile dakka is your objective. Then if our Dreads ever do get fixed, they have a shiny ride. :D

[Eire]

Thanks everyone, I truly appreciate all the responses. Really glad I joined this forum, this is exactly the help I was looking for and I love the discussions!

 

I need to cull/purge more of my Fantasy models. Already did some trades for the Dark Imperium box, Hellblasters, the Redemptor Dread, a Ghostkeel (I know, I know, I needed one for my Tau), BA Gauntlet box, and a Baal Pred (for some strange reason I've never had one!).

 

Just patiently waiting for the codex to start supplementing the army I had pictured above :)