Surviving in these dark times.

[Schlitzaf]

Our power is meant to mostly stop things like Fortune/Da Jump/Warp Time, not Smite. And I know I say this is 101 different ways, but the best aspect of our army is the Crusader Squad and honestly you weren't using it very efficiency. The Melta/Missile is a bad setup for us. Sense Crusaders cannot combat Squad.

 

You want to pick Shooty (so Mis/Plas 5 Man MSU) or Melee (at power, 12 power; 15 Man Pow/Pow/Melta). You had just two tanks, Crusader and Predator, which is too few. You want be rocking 3-4 Tanks or maybe just take 1 Crusader.

 

For example I'd have taken*

2 15 Man Crusaders and Cenos, 25

2 5 Man backrow MSU. 10 Power (or use Intercessors for same points)

1 Devestastor with 4 Lascannons. 8.

Helbrect, Castallen, Champion. 17 Power

 

Leaving 10 Power left over. You could take two Reivars or mess with the Crusaders points more to take Assault Terminator (replace two MSU with 1 10 Man for 8 Power). I'm just gonna mention something however.

 

Helbrect is 9 Power. What I see is for 9 Power you are getting Super Rerolls and wounding MeQ on 3+. Where taking a basic Marshall is 5 Power.

 

Which is if you don't taken another Castallen or a Castallen at all. Is another Devies Squad. You'd rather have Helbrect, 6" Super Rerolls and MeQ wounding on 3+ or a Reg Marshall with 9 Passable Reroll plus either 9 -1 LD/Shock Immune and 4 Lascannons?

 

*Model restrictions I understand

[Brother_Gneecapper]

I've been really thinking about putting a 5man with Multi Melta + Melta + Combi Melta in an Assback and running it up the table. It ends up around 250pts or so and can effectively deal with most threats on the board.

 

My issue is procuring said assault cannons for the ass back.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I do a similar loadout for my anti tank squad. Melta, Combi Melta, Lascannon. Lascannon is cheaper, and the strength 9 and extra range comes in handy more often than it doesn't. You don't need to take my word for it, try it yourself. You'll see what I mean when you need to wound a Leman Russ or a Haruspex on 4s with that multi melta that's more expensive than a lascannon. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by SydonianDragoon404

[Kisada]

@Schlitzaf. Yes my list wasn't optimal. Some of the weapon combos are that way because I also enjoy WYSIWYG. I loaded up the crusader squads to 10 in hopes of using them to obsec and capture objectives. I wanted the bodies to be able to survive. Funny thing about that lascannon/meltagun squad. That melta did some work because since he was using fliers they ended up in range to be shot at.

 

Yes our stratagem is to deny that one power we really need stopped. But then it's still only a 50/50 shot at it.

 

As for adding to my crusade I have a couple of things lined up for after I finish my primaris.

 

Venerable dread (always loved that BT dread),

Chaplain dread (give him the armor Indomitus since my other characters are usually Helbrecht and EC),

Some sword brother and initiate weapon options,

And a sicarin

[Zeruvar]

I've been really thinking about putting a 5man with Multi Melta + Melta + Combi Melta in an Assback and running it up the table. It ends up around 250pts or so and can effectively deal with most threats on the board.

 

My issue is procuring said assault cannons for the ass back.

If you have heavy bolter turrets try what I did for assault cannons. Just grab baal predator turret bits and you can poke holes in the back which can fit the heavy bolter barrels and make them into assault cannons when you want to.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Zeruvar

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Land Raider Crusader upgrade parts which are still available from GW for actual Assault Cannon Razorback turrets... if you can't or won't, then get Assault Cannons from Land Speeders/bitz stores, cut the barrel and rotating part, then cut the heavy bolter barrel from the Razorback sprue and glue the barrel of the Assault cannon where the Heavy Bolters barrels used to be...

[CrystalSeer]

played a 75 power level game.  My army isn't really set up for power level, I didn't have any power level lists prepared.  I'm not a tournament type of player.

 

My list:

(from memory) Helbrecht, EC, 10 man crusader (PF, melta, missile), 10 man crusader (combi plas, plas, las), 5 man crusader (combi plas, plas, plascan), 5 man terminators (4 TH, 1 LC), predator lascannons, LRC.

 

His list:

3 grand masters in dreadknight armor, storm raven, 2 storm talons.

 

TL:DR he crushed me. 

 

we played the open war deck.

Objective:  The comet.  Objective falls from sky in 3rd round.  Roll to see where it lands.  Player controlling it at the end of 5 wins.

Deployment was like front line assault but the arrow tips touch.

Twist: Warp storm.  +1 to psychic tests and deny test.  Double perils

 

I took down the stormraven.  Couldn't do enough to the 3 grand masters.  Psychic spells were hurting me ... and then this vortex of doom or whatever ... just smashed me on turn 3 when the comet landed right where my terminators, Helbrecht, and a lone crusader with ML was.  I tried our stratagem ... failed.  I re-rolled it ... failed.  

 

What could have changed the battle in my favor?  

If I made my charge with my terminators from DS and killed his warlord.  When I finally did get his warlord in combat he gate of infinity away.  

My EC made it into combat with a grand master but Helbrecht failed his charge so the EC was out of his bubble ... would the extra str matter? probably not, but the attacks from Helbrecht himself sure would've helped.

 

In the end I had about 7 initiates from the lascannon squad left ... they were too far from the objective to advance on it and steal the win with objective secured.  2 Storm talons and 3 grand masters weren't going to let them get off easy anyway.

 

Lessons ...

psychics and smite hurt ... being able to 50/50 deny 1 ability a turn at the cost of 1 command point is underwhelming.

not making charges sucks ... characters being left behind because they're the only ones that failed the charge also sucks (left Helbrecht kind of out in the open).

flyers are tough to take down with the units I have available in my collection.  

 

This is painful to read. I definitely understand the frustration; but this is not a matter of Black Templar rules being bad. This guys list was simply way more specialized than yours. If you knew it was coming and had the models, it would not be that hard to beat. You essentially need to take out three models for him to auto-lose. That can be done in a single shooting phase with certain lists.

 

I run in to the same thing when people take full knight lists. Opponents specialize to overwhelm a specific capability. Sometimes its numbers, sometimes its armor. It doesn't mean you're a bad player or that the army is bad, you simply need to show up with more things to deal with that threat.

[Kisada]

@CrystalSeer It was a totally blind pick up game.  He had no idea what I was fielding and I had no idea what he had.  At least he wasn't a jerk and I had the moral support of most of the guys watching (people like underdogs I'm guessing lol).

[Gendo]

I've been really thinking about putting a 5man with Multi Melta + Melta + Combi Melta in an Assback and running it up the table. It ends up around 250pts or so and can effectively deal with most threats on the board.

 

My issue is procuring said assault cannons for the ass back.

Just make sure you've a bigger threat moving up the board as Razorbacks can drop fairly quickly leaving your Melta squad too far to matter.