Devastator Centurions and you

[Brother Captain Ed]

Hail brothers.

 

I have acquired a set of devastator Centurions in a trade and I am wondering how best to utilize them.

 

I see that giving them lascannons rockets them to 400+ points. This seems steep.

 

The grav-cannon option is more palatable at Guilliman level points...but that's still not cheap and grav has fallen far.

 

Finally, the heavy bolter option is some pretty legit dakka. But Aggressors do a pretty admirable job at that role and are half the cost.

 

So, now I'm wondering if I made a poor trade. But, before I despair and re-list them, I thought I'd turn to my brothers in arms to see what the hive mind might do. I know that Prot and a few other have been using them and I'm hoping to save myself a bit of pain on the learning curve (either by avoiding mistakes or trading these models for something worthwhile

[Frater Cornelius]

What you need is a transport. Then you can worry about weapons. Their biggest weakness is how easy it is to shoot them off the board. 2+ does not mean much these days, neither does T5.

 

As for weapons, LC + ML is waaaaay too expensive and there are better anti-tank options. You are looking at Hurricanes and either HB or Grav. If you are running Guilliman, both are decent, but I think Grav might be better, seeing as it can kill pretty much anything a HB can in addition to heavier stuff. Sure, it more expensive, but if you wanted to take HB spam you would run a Repulsor or Quad HB Rapiers. Grav Cents have a solid niche.

[Ciler]

Have you considered missile launcher and heavy bolter ? That's a lot of shots at decent range with decent firepower against both infantry and vehicles for a substantially lower cost than the lascanon variant.

[Captain Idaho]

Sorry I have to disagree. You don't want a transport for Devastator Centurions, sorry. They're expensive and you want you use them not hide them away.

 

I agree that with Guilliman then Grav Cannons are a great choice.

 

Personally I'd go with nice and cheap (!) Heavy Bolters so you can hang back and shoot targets dead whilst Guilliman gets stuck and isn't a waste of half his potential.

 

Don't worry about the comparison with Aggressors using the Heavy Bolters. The range and -1 AP makes the Centurions a solid alternative.

[Stoic Raptor]

A dreadnought with twin lascannons and a missile launcher is 10 points cheaper than a comparably equipped Centurion, and has far more survivability.  So yeah, I'd go for moar dakka or grav.

[Prot]

The only way I transport Centurions is in a game start. I'll use them in a Landraider with a character for a single deploy drop, and start them in the vehicle because I get stolen on a lot (or so it seems!)

 

After that, with Lascannons these guys create the ultimate honey pot.

 

I can only say this... some of the strongest lists I have made  have a full re-roll aura around 2 las Cents with Bolter nipples, and a Grav model with bolter nips (Grav guy dies first). 

 

Once you go down this road, if this becomes a core in your zone, then you enhance it with an Apothecary and it becomes extremely strong. It becomes so hard to take down, and you're denying cover and moving while shooting.... the 2+ save is -almost- like having an invuln. It does help. A lot of people write off the core rules of the unit but all those little things make a difference. (Tougnness, wounds, save, decimator protocols) etc.

 

If you start to build a list like this, opponents realize they have to tear this apart and even the Bolt Nips are incredible in overwatch. Essentially this unit (when accented properly) works like a Dev squad / aggressor squad hybrid. The fact you can disengage and still shoot just makes it harder to trap them.... That's how it was in 7th, now that's a non issue.

 

I stopped using them. Once I started sprinkling scouts around them to push back Deep strikers, and then .... Auspex Scan... it's a bloody mean unit. I have no doubt you did not make a bum trade.Like I said I stopped using them because for anyone taking anything less than 'tournament level' I felt like a jerk. 

[Captain Idaho]

Interesting. Wonder how it would fare against 150 Orks? Any experience?

[Prot]

Interesting. Wonder how it would fare against 150 Orks? Any experience?

Funny that you mention that. I played against a 100 Ork list and it had some good Ork dreadnoughts in it ( their dreads are cheap and actually good in cc with WS 3 I believe). He also used a big wagon ( landraider like) and that actually did reach me because the horde is a bigger threat imho.

 

I beat that list. And to be blunt he never had a chance. When he finally could threaten the centurions, Tigurius finished the Wagon with mortal wounds and rerolls cents annihilated the contents. I actually tested Guilliman here because I knew he could not win and I threw a Guilliman into a mob and did not help him in anyway when the mob finally overtook Guilliman, he was nearly tabled. I just threw Guilliman in there so the Orks could kill him and have some fun.

 

But I did play against a 120 Orks list with Renegades assault Chaos and got hammered. Those 30 man Ork mobs are so incredibly good they actually beat any Berzerker squad that cannot go first... with ease I might add

 

I actually think Orks can only be dealt with by shooting the crud out of each mob.... they must get down to 10 models or else they are so destructive, and hard to break and very hard to retreat from.

 

The centurions have the advantage of full mobile shooting denying Orks in ruins of cover while smashing trucks and split firing Bolters into mobs. With full rerolls, like I said I had to take Guilliman out and/or drop the Centurions. I just felt too dirty unless playing a tournament player.

 

That being said I stopped using Cents a month ago. Things change :)

 

PS

Sorry forgot one important side note.

 

Troops come from scouts to block deepstriking Psychics from that ridiculous Ork power. This also unlocks assault Cannon Razorbacks which as we all know put in some serious work against mobs.

 

They are always deployed on flanks. This means they often don't get rerolls but they are there to block any horde army from crumbling my flanks. They usually last 2 fight phases by anticipating charges and charging first, then giving me time to reposition the core/ slam down my own deep strikers for mop up/ distraction.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Prot

[Captain Idaho]

So you go Lascannon and hurricane bolter for the Centurions?

 

I still like Heavy Bolters. Even against vehicles they can do some serious work. 18 shots is nothing to be sniffed at.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Prot, if you didn't have access to a landraider but set out to make rock hard, "screw you guys, I'ma win this tournament" list, what would you do?

 

If it's a unit that you load for bear, so be it. I need reasonably hard lists for tourney weekends, so this was perhaps fortuitous. I like beer and pretzel games as much as the next guy. But on tournament day?? It's a league game, Smokey.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Brother Captain Ed

[Prot]

If I didn't have a landraider I'd use Tigurius' modified ability and point to the Centurions every turn and let my opponent know they're minus one to hit them while Tigurius lives. ( in all my harder lists Tigurius makes the cut for many reasons)

[Brother Captain Ed]

If I didn't have a landraider I'd use Tigurius' modified ability and point to the Centurions every turn and let my opponent know they're minus one to hit them while Tigurius lives. ( in all my harder lists Tigurius makes the cut for many reasons)

Yeah I find most of my lists start with Tigurius. Such a great model.

 

Anyway, it wont let me PM you. But would you mind posting what you'd consider to be a stone cold, hard-as-nails 2k list featuring Dev Cents? I'm having a hard with the point cost and I'm hoping seeing it in the context of a list would be a good place to start. You live and play is a much more cutthroat meta than I, so your wisdom is much appreciated.

[Frater Cornelius]

I'd be interested as well. Though I imagine, given the limited creative freedom Marines have with their competitive lists, I would imagine it to be a deathball that is reliant on character aura effect to shoot the enemy of the board with high efficiency units.

[barek]

Yes please do? I need inspiration. I just finished three UM lascannon hurricanebolter centurions and am wondering how to create a list around them.

[Prot]

Guys I don't have the list anymore. Lol

 

Seriously it's nothing super unique. I was forcing Primaris into it so it wasn't that great...

 

2 las Cannon / beer nipple Cents 1 Grav beer nipple cent

Tech priest/ Tiggy

Landraider

Scouts x 2

primaris Intercessors

Apothecary

Ancient

Vanilla devastator missile launchers with Fat Baby

Primaris Helblasters

Guilliman

 

Experimental units:

Inceptors

Flyer Stormtalon

1-2 assault Cannon Razorbacks.

 

I can't remember the entire list. Sorry. I'm also posting this from my phone.

 

The Razorbacks protect flanks. Inceptors and/or Flyer are mid game harassment for indirect fire units.... manticores, hive guard, FW artillery, even Ork arty is good.

 

Guilliman in the heart while expensive, I experimented pulling Apothecary but man people get pissed when you bring a heavy hitter back from the dead. And the Ancient can't leave this list imo. He's gold in small model count.

 

Sorry I can't remember the exact numbers I played about 3-4 variants of the list. But hopefully you get the idea.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

They are expensive, but I like their chunky proportions. I have three with grav/hurricane that I plan to put on the table some day.

[Ishagu]

Grav and Hurricane is the best set up. Anything else is too expensive to consider. (The grav is only a few more points more than the heavy bolters but is far superior)

 

The unit CAN do a job. If you can protect them, and are in aura range of Guilliman they can deal massive damage.

[Prot]

Grav and Hurricane is the best set up. Anything else is too expensive to consider.

 

Have to strongly disagree. Grav's job is easy to replicate to a reasonable degree, Las is... Las. On a Cent platform denying cover with re-rolling Guilliman style this will attract far more attention than a Grav unit will, and there's a reason for it.

 

I've taken down a Stompa in nearly a turn with these guys. If you play against Superheavies at all... this is a go to unit. Grav is good... grav is fun, grav is cheaper, but don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Las rips expensive stuff apart, including new baddies like Mort.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Prot

[Ishagu]

The problem with Las is it's cheaper to bring 2 Tri-Las Predators and Chronus.

 

I can't justify them for this reason.

 

Grav has volumes of fire and high ap to deal with vehicles, monsters and numerous foes alike.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Ishagu

[Ciler]

One merit i see to grav-canon+hurricane bolter is that they have the same range. Same with missile launchers and heavy bolters.

[Captain Idaho]

Grav struggles against armour and monsters without Guilliman though. Sure, 12 shots can get a few 5+ wound rolls but that's inefficient compared to dedicated anti tank weapons. Centurions are so expensive you want them doing some serious damage to make up for it.

 

I like cheap plasma in Tacticals and maybe even the odd Grav Cannon there to take care of elite infantry.

[Ishagu]

I wouldn't run these guys without Guilliman. They are so expensive that I'd need them to work with hyper efficiency.

[Captain Idaho]

I think you're right there. Which is a shame as I like the idea of Centurions. Edited September 13, 2017 by Captain Idaho

[Ciler]

Captain+lieutenant not good enough ? Sure you don't reroll natural 2s to hit, but is that such a disadvantage ?

[Ishagu]

That can work, yes. Not as effective but you're saving points for other units.