Purifiers - Give Them a Shot

[Rurik the blessed]

Guys plz.... think out of the paper.... We use to have a codex where all options reduces to one or three.

 

thanks to 8th ed. we have plenty of posibilities.

so don't keep that 7th logic.

give a shot to every unit... they act very different in game... out from paper.

[AnImA8]

I'd say the only way to do it is load them up in a Raven (two squads of 5) and get up in the enemy's face Turn 1. Gets around chaff/screening issues, and the Raven itself is superb at cracking open transports/clearing a landing zone with hurricanes and assault cannon. Just hope nothing with Fly or dedicated anti-air knocks your Raven out. 

 

Turn 2 you hop out 3" before the Raven moves, go another 6" into enemy lines, make sure you land a Brother-Captain nearby either with 'Gate' or Teleport Strike (you could even shove him in the Raven itself if you are brave). At that point you're pretty much going to cast onto whatever is 6" from the Purifiers (conga line the squads so you have options, you might beat your initial target). Double cast 'Purifying Flame', delete a character or badly injure a superheavy/monster (save your re-roll strategem for the D6 mortal wounds). Throw in a 'Vortex' from the Brother-Captain for good measure, then shoot+charge something nearby. 

I think in terms of getting the unit to its target destination, you're absolutely right. The Raven is the perfect vehicle for the job. I've used it to fairly devastating effect myself, except without the Vortex Bro-Captain.

 

As to the cost: Strikes are certainly good, and they're an efficient choice for us right now, but I wouldn't make claims to their having a higher damage output (which is what I tend towards maximizing). I can't deny that Strikes' being able to Teleport means you have more flexibility in list building because you don't pay a transport tax, but if you're willing to restrict your list and playstyle a bit, I think Purifiers are well worth the cost.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Brother Tyler

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Guys plz.... think out of the paper.... We use to have a codex where all options reduces to one or three.

 

thanks to 8th ed. we have plenty of posibilities.

so don't keep that 7th logic.

give a shot to every unit... they act very different in game... out from paper.

 

I'm trying, but Purifiers need a lot of help just to get into range and do their signature ability. It's especially irritating when so many of our others units are now very self-sufficient and work as expected ('Teleport Strike' for example). 

I think in terms of getting the unit to its target destination, you're absolutely right. The Raven is the perfect vehicle for the job. I've used it to fairly devastating effect myself, except without the Vortex Bro-Captain.

 

As to the cost: Strikes are certainly good, and they're an efficient choice for us right now, but I wouldn't make claims to their having a higher damage output (which is what I tend towards maximizing). I can't deny that Strikes' being able to Teleport means you have more flexibility in list building because you don't pay a transport tax, but if you're willing to restrict your list and playstyle a bit, I think Purifiers are well worth the cost.

 

Strikes are easily one of the best Troops choices in the game. When I compare them to Marines or Ad Mech, I laugh. They provide very solid anti-infantry core firepower, and in melee they can slice up most things with falchions. 

 

'Teleport Strike' isn't foolproof, but the difference being is I don't worry about missing out on doing anything with Strikes the turn they arrive. They land inside rapid fire range and Rites, if they die thereafter I'm not too worried (it sucks, but they're cheap and its fire not going into other things). That's the kicker with Purifiers, they're not pulling the trigger earlier than Turn 2, and that still requires a lot of work.

 

GW need to revisit Purifiers, and decide what they want the unit to do. If they wanna remain Strikes that cost 30% more, that's fine, I just want 'Purifying Flame' to be usable off a Teleportarium Strike (push to 6" base, then it goes to 12" with a Brother-Captain). If they decide to not touch 'Purifying Flame' (I assume because its intended as a defensive ability), Purifiers need to be 2A base. The two special weapons per 5 is largely meaningless, because we don't take anything besides psilencer and even then only on Purgators (because 'Psychic Onslaught' rewards stacking as many shots as possible).

[Adeptus]

We do have that 'teleport a unit that normally couldn't teleport' stratagem.

[Gentlemanloser]

Which doesn't help purifiers as they have to land outside smite range.

 

That's thier big issue.

 

They only work second/third turn when deployed from a raven.

 

Our special weapons need a reason to be taken (i somewhat disagree about purgation squads and psilencers just for PO. You use that on an NDK instead), which would make the 2 for 5 a reason to look at purifiers.

 

But they need 2A back.

 

They're supposed to be the close assault unit. As evidenced by the 3" smite.

 

But they're no better at that role than the cheaper strike.

 

( really the same for purgators, but it's worse for them. Purgatirs still need major work...)

[Adeptus]

I don't think, lore wise, they ever deserved that second attack. They're not supposed to be more elite or highly trained than other grey knights. They do suffer from not having a clear battlefield role, though.

[Gentlemanloser]

All marine Veterens have / had 2A.

 

It goes back to the days of Terminator Honors giving +1A stat.

 

Purifiers in the old Elite FoC were classed as Veterens, and made sense for them to be just as skilled as regular Space Marine vets in CC.

 

As opposed to Purgation squad 'Devs'.

[the jeske]

I don't know maybe, if they were given some extra rule, they would be fixed. They are 'special' super pure anti warp GKs. Leave them at 1A[hurts], but give them utility, some anti psyker stuff for example, make it harder to cast stuff on them and dudes near them, give them DR or a extre/better sv vs mortal/psyker wounds. Right now to be used in any way, they have a ton of ifs and required other units GK players have to take, and with the stat line and cost they have they just aren't viable. Ah and lets not forget those moments, when you move your SR, drop them down with a BC captin you took only to buff them, on turn 2-3... and the power gets stoped.

[Adeptus]

Yeah, mechanically they were veterans, but in the lore they never have been so the extra attack was never really justified. I mean, I wouldn't complain if they got their second attack back, but I think I'd prefer to see a more thematic rule or buff.

[Waking Dreamer]

Two DtWs per squad to start off with, maybe two psychic casts as well. Thematically matches their supposed psychic prowess.

 

Not sure if their D6 smite l...at 6" range (potentially 12" with BroCap) becomes too broken against the average army with little to no psykers.

[Adeptus]

Given how cheap Primaris psykers and Inquisitors are, I don't think 6" range would be broken. Two DtW a turn would be nice but I can't think of a time I've ever felt like I needed more DtWs

[Corvus Fortis]

Two attacks per model, three for justicar and casting two powers a turn should be back. I don't care much about lore, but why they just didn't transfer their stats from 7th? They were unique unit with own features. Compared to strikes, they are better in close combat, better psychers and can carry more special weapons. But at the same time, they are more expencive and harder to bring to battle. What kills me is not that they are overpriced for what they doing. They became just boring. Strike squad without deepstrike with 1 more special for 5 men and short-ranged powerful smite. Meh.

[AnImA8]

I bet GW figured that 2 attacks base would be too OP with free falchions. TBH I really didn't see much of a need for the extra base attack. The only complaint I really have with Purifiers after using them isn't even a problem with them, it's just that our special weapons suck. They're only marginally better than our storm bolters in any given case and are significantly more expensive. It's the one thing that I've been a little disappointed with this edition is how boring a lot of my lists look now that I'm just rolling with nothing but storm bolters, and since we're paying the premium for Purifiers to use more of these weapon options, I'd like for those options to be good.

[Danarc]

Probably they will not change purifiers’stat. It will be ok dropping their cost at least by 4 points.

[Gentlemanloser]

I donno.

 

Even if they cost the same as strikes, why use them?

 

Your trading teleport strike and objective secured (and battalion cp access).

 

For 3" smite and 2 special weapons your not going to take anyway.

 

Points adjustments won't fix purifiers. They need a redesign. Same as Purgators.

 

Edit.

 

Now of you make psycannons good again. That might make a price drop worth it.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Danarc]

I agree that they should have a complete redesign, like purgators, but if I correctly understood the only change that could happen is the point change.

On the other hand I would use them if they cost the same point of a strike squad, because we need people on the ground, or better in the SR. :)

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah i think the only changes we'll get in chapter approved are points adjustments. If we're lucky. Edited September 24, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Adeptus]

Agreed. A redesign is what's needed, but a points adjustment is the only realistic option until next edition.

[the jeske]

To be honest I feel a kind of a lazines from GW as far as old codex armies goes[aka non totaly redone stuff]. This is neither the time nor the place to talk about DG or primaris, but at worse they are fresh stuff. With stuff like chaos or GK it feels to me as if GW reprinted the index and slaped on some general rules. If it wasn't for the GMDK, GK wouldn't feel much different then the codex list. I get the new to bring out stuff fast[but weren't indexs done to cover that?], but there should really be more thought put in to stuff. unless of course this is some sort of ploy to make people buy index first, then codex and then every year update those with a book, so most people would never finish their armies and always be buying more stuff.

[Gentlemanloser]

Plus every army now needs a Primarch type mini.

 

Yeah we can use imperial ones. But we shouldn't have to.

 

We (and Eldar, Tau, Orks etc) need our own faction Bobby G or Morty.

[Adeptus]

To be honest I feel a kind of a lazines from GW as far as old codex armies goes[aka non totaly redone stuff]. This is neither the time nor the place to talk about DG or primaris, but at worse they are fresh stuff. With stuff like chaos or GK it feels to me as if GW reprinted the index and slaped on some general rules. If it wasn't for the GMDK, GK wouldn't feel much different then the codex list. I get the new to bring out stuff fast[but weren't indexs done to cover that?], but there should really be more thought put in to stuff. unless of course this is some sort of ploy to make people buy index first, then codex and then every year update those with a book, so most people would never finish their armies and always be buying more stuff.

 

Yeah, the Codex is basically the Index 1.1 with some lore and artwork added in.

 

But I'm glad that's the case, and I hope it continues to be the case across the rest of the factions. The index lists all seem relatively balanced and to be frank, I don't trust GW to add more options without totally ruining that balance. 

 

Plus every army now needs a Primarch type mini.

 

Yeah we can use imperial ones. But we shouldn't have to.

 

We (and Eldar, Tau, Orks etc) need our own faction Bobby G or Morty.

 

I for one hope that not every faction gets a new action-figure sized OP monstrosity to play with. I'm glad we don't have our own Primarch equivalent (the GMNDK is bad enough) and would hate to see every faction get one, even though most of them already have something roughly equivalent be it a hive tyrant, a battlesuit, wraithlord or whatever.

[Gentlemanloser]

Its about balance.

 

Once one guy gets a morty, everyone needs the potential to take thier own morty.

 

But £85 for a single dude. Ugh.

 

(For the Eldar it should really be the Avatar. But that dude just isn't scary any more. Feelsbad)

[the jeske]

Just make him the G-man of eldar[as in fluff he suppose to make all near by eldar more war focused], +2/+4 sv with build in almost forun[always rolls 2 dice for a sv you pick which one you want to be the actual roll] and some sort of Shard of the War God body rule[all wounds done to him per weapon are -1minium of one, -2 if they are "fire" based]. Flat 6 dmg on the glaive[or one of the glaives the new avatar would probably be a dual kit] and a 12" fixed charge range and people would be turning tables over. But I doubt he is going to get a new model.

 

as far as chaos or GK codex goes, I remember the time when some rules, some items, maybe a special unit/characer was done through a WD article and did not require a whole codex slot being wasted. Now am not saying that GK are bad or unplayable[specially outside of tournaments], but it is a bummer about a lot of units that just got copy pasted. A short range smite melee/support unit or a noLoS shoty unit could be a real great addition to not only GK armies. Because the more good units per codex a big faction has, the higher the chance that people will start mixing things up. this would be good for the people[army less stale, more options to try out etc] playing w40k and GW [more options to play with, well guess I have to buy them].

[AnImA8]

I think the thing that gets me most about our codex is the way it looks in comparison to DG. Like the DG codex looks so unique and interesting as an addition to the Chaos book. Even if a lot of their quirky grenade effects never really see competitive play, I like the fact that they exist and they make the codex really interesting. Never mind the fact that they got an entire set of unique stratagems. I don't know if you guys noticed but our stratagems are almost entirely a copy and paste of the SM and CSM stratagems. Whatever happened to True Grit is my question? It would be pretty easy to port into the current ruleset, just have GK's count that SB's as Pistol 2 in combat. It would also offset the loss of attacks for certain units *cough* Purifiers *cough*

[Gentlemanloser]

No new minis to release. No thought needed to be put into our codex.

 

Like True Grit, where's our Fearless? Shrouding? Aegis?

 

And back to a single Fast Slot unit. Again.