A filthy trick.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

So I was playing a game a few days ago and discovered a trick which is probably going to get to FAQ'd if it hasnt already.

 

The rules regarding the targeting of enemy characters only apply during the shooting phase.  If you have a firebase of devs supported by a chapter ancient you can use the banner ability to target enemy characters if your devs died during the psychic or fight phase.  

 

So for those of you that play in competitive/cutthroat metas... you better bring the pain with lascannon snipers.   

[El_ojo_y_la_sombra]

Those abilities state that the dead models shoots "as if were in the shooting phase". So all rules of the shooting phase applies to them.

[Jagus Kumkani]

There is a guy at my local game store that does this. He wins all of the tournaments btw...

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Those abilities state that the dead models shoots "as if were in the shooting phase". So all rules of the shooting phase applies to them.

This still seems like it would be a point of contention because it is not the shooting phase.

[Lemondish]

 

 

Those abilities state that the dead models shoots "as if were in the shooting phase". So all rules of the shooting phase applies to them.

This still seems like it would be a point of contention because it is not the shooting phase.

What contention? That is 100% irrelevant. Shoot like it's the shooting phase means all the same rules and limitations apply, full stop. Crystal clear.

 

From what I can see, this trick is against the rules.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Lemondish

[ONDIG]

I don't think I understand how this "trick" is supposed to werk.The Devastators make a shooting attack out of sequence when they get killed?And this attack can target characters?

[Sloeberjong]

Anybody come with that cheat against me I pack up and leave. I play this game for fun and I'm not playing against asshats that cheat because it takes away from my fun. The rules are clear "as if it were the shooting fase", so no sniping lascannons for anyone. 

 

In short, it's against the rules first, against the spirit of the game second and it's against good sportsmanship and having a fun game third. It has a small chance of actually happening, but if somebody feels the need to go there than they're probably not somebody I'd like to play against anyway.

 

@ONDIG when within "6 of a chapter ancient dead marines have a chance to perform one last shooting or close combat attack. Both are performed "as if it were the shooting/fight fase". It can be out of sequence because if a marine dies during the psychic fase they can make an immediate shooting or cc attack.

[Gulltramarine]

Yup, not a thing you can do

[Galron]

Ignore the cheater and move on. The rules are extremely clear. Anyone doing this is either ignorant of the rules or intentionally cheating. "As if it was the shooting phase". cant get any clearer. 

[ONDIG]

In this case wouldn't normal targeting restrictions apply? You wouldn't be able to fire on a Character model unless it was closest.Plus your Lascannon guy is dead.Sounds not so awesome.I must be missing something.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

In this case wouldn't normal targeting restrictions apply? You wouldn't be able to fire on a Character model unless it was closest.Plus your Lascannon guy is dead.Sounds not so awesome.I must be missing something.

Requires the use of the ancient banner ability to avoid the shooting phase restriction.  So you get a lascannon dev or tactical to die in the enemy psychic/fight phase and trigger the banner ability.  The consensus seems to be that this combo is not valid... fair enough.  As I stated in the original post, this probably isnt a rule point you can argue in metas that arent super competitive.  Even mentioning such a rule point is enough to provoke sanctimonious ire even if you dont voice approval of it in either direction.

[ONDIG]

It seems fairly cut and dry to me.You would get attack but it would still follow rules for shooting phase and unless I'm missing something you could only ever net 4 extra attacks when those models are cut down.Seems like a tamed down version of Ynnari rule Strength from Death.I feel like if it's played otherwise it's due to alot of loose rules interpretation and wishful thinking.Even if I am wrong I don't understand how this is a good combo.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

It seems fairly cut and dry to me.You would get attack but it would still follow rules for shooting phase and unless I'm missing something you could only ever net 4 extra attacks when those models are cut down.Seems like a tamed down version of Ynnari rule Strength from Death.I feel like if it's played otherwise it's due to alot of loose rules interpretation and wishful thinking.Even if I am wrong I don't understand how this is a good combo.

 

Well when I was playing around with it against my friend we both got to use it since we both run banners... we didnt have the codex on hand but did have the rule books so we couldnt check the precise wording.  It was an effective deterrent against targetting long range infantry.  I did lose an LT to hellblaster fire since the LT doesnt get an invuln save :<  I think it would pretty effective if your army had a lot long range guns in smaller squads with some banner support.  Also Ynnari would wreck face if character targeting out fo the shoot phase did seem legit.  

Edited September 15, 2017 by SanguinaryGuardsman