Dreadclaw & Kharybdis: Best Uses?

[Khornestar]

Since I'm a genius and bought a Kharybdis in 7th (for Fist of Khorne, don't regret) and 2 Dreadclaws when 8th dropped because I was so sure they'd be amazing this time around, I have some pods to build and play with.

 

 

I'm going to be dropping units of Berzerkers in them. Obviously, they'll each have an Icon of Wrath to re-roll charges, but even with those, a successful charge is nowhere close to guaranteed.

 

Then I thought I'd be smart and put 2 units per Dreadclaw and 4 in the Kharybdis, but doing that drastically increases the number of units I'd have to deploy on the table at the start of the game, and at least for now it doesn't look like anyone in my area is playing games larger than ~80 PL so that isn't gonna work. I put together a 100 PL list that includes the 2 dreadclaws and while it isn't good, I can at least see a game that size happening.

 

But really, in some ways I think ground-based transports do a better job of guaranteeing a charge, but obviously trade a large amount of risk for that ability. Still, I can take 2.5 Rhinos per Dreadclaw. I can put 2 MSU units of berzerkers in a Rhino for 14 PL, while it would cost 19 PL for 10 berzerkers in a dreadclaw (or 20 PL if we don't care about # of drops and we want to run 2 MSU units). Anyway, considering how easy it is to blow up a Rhino, I still think these pods have a role in delivering berzerkers. Plus, they're better fighters than Rhinos. I guess I should also mention that we don't have to deep strike the pods, and a transport that can fly 15" isn't bad. However, that's only 3" greater than the Rhino's distance, so I dunno...

 

Other than my zerks, I'm trying to think about the best ways to use these damn pods. For one thing, I guess it wouldn't be absolutely gods-awful to drop a dual soulburner contemptor in a dreadclaw. Soulburners inflict mortal wounds on hits, and they're assault weapons so they don't lose accuracy due to the arriving from reserves rules. With any luck, the dread will make his charge and rip some fools apart.

 

4 units of plasma havocs in a Kharybdis sounds pretty brutal. That's 5 units total off the table, but in a list with 11 units total that can work as long as there aren't any others in reserves. Chosen maybe have better potential for taking advantage of dropping to shoot and then charge, but with the extra cost over havocs I'm not sure that's really that worthwhile. 15 PL Kharybdis + 4(6) PL havocs = 39 PL for 40 rapid-firing plasma shots. 2 units of 10 terminators toting combi-plasmas = 2(28) = 56 PL for the same number of shots, but they can all take MoK and Icon of Wrath along with power weapons. That's a significant difference, though it's also only 2 units dropping vs. 5.

 

Dropping a rapier carriage in a dreadclaw sounds like just about the dumbest thing ever, so nuts to that. 

 

Cultists... I dunno. Even with a Dark Apostle to buff their leadership, I'm not so sure I see the point. For 13 points I'd get a Dreadclaw and minimum cultists. For 1 more point I could take 5 terminators with combi-weapons, so both damage output and survivability are improved.

 

Possessed, similar situation to Berzerkers. Terminators, Obliterators, Warp Talons, Raptors, etc. can all drop on their own, so they don't need the pods at all. 

 

What am I missing? Is there some great unit that I haven't considered yet? Thoughts?

Edited September 13, 2017 by Juggernut

[Plaguecaster]

You could run a mixture or both combat and ranged troops, depends on what legion you were wanting but you could run a squad of Beserkers with a few characters (especially sorcerer) then have a squad or two of slaanesh havocs so you drop the pod right in the midst of the enemy, use the strategem to double tap with the havocs then warptime the berserkers into combat

Just sucks you can only put one contemptor in the pod you would think that it has a transport capacity of 20 it should be able to transport 2 dreads since the dreadclaws can only transport one since it has a capacity of 10

[Khornestar]

You could run a mixture or both combat and ranged troops, depends on what legion you were wanting but you could run a squad of Beserkers with a few characters (especially sorcerer) then have a squad or two of slaanesh havocs so you drop the pod right in the midst of the enemy, use the strategem to double tap with the havocs then warptime the berserkers into combat

Just sucks you can only put one contemptor in the pod you would think that it has a transport capacity of 20 it should be able to transport 2 dreads since the dreadclaws can only transport one since it has a capacity of 10

Well, more or less it's gonna be a World Eaters list, though my renegade Warband can function as anything.

 

I agree on the Kharybdis 2 dread thing. Naught to be done about it, I doubt they'll ever revisit any of these rules.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Juggernut

[Ghorgul]

I agree with you for most parts, although I do think both Kharybdis and Dreadclaw are best used by transporting shooting units, such as Havocs, Chosen or Noise Marines. You anyway want to use warptime sorcerer, might as well use it to cast warptime on Kharybdis/Dreadclaw after the shooting unit disembarks. This way K/Dreadclaw can make both shoot the pistol weapon without hitting friendlies (thanks 15" move) and can get almost guaranteed charge.

 

I think putting in Contemptor to Dreadclaw can work, I have used it once and wasn't really dissappointed. Pure mathhammering just tells me that the amount of hurt slaanesh plasma-Havocs/Chosen can put out is totally different level to Contemptor. Of course as a trade-off contemptor needs some serious firepower to be shot down, being slightly more durable than rhino-equivalents with his 5++ save, whereas your havoc/chosen can be quite easily removed with any sufficiently concentrated fire. Additionally Contemptor can bounce back from low wounds if it makes it to melee thanks to it's rules. Honestly though contemptor probably is better off just walking at enemy thanks to it's 9" move combined with advance.

 

Noise Marines are an excellent choice, they don't have good AP, but they can really well remove/wound all kinds of low save models by the bulk. As an added bonus when enemy tries to remove them and they die, you can after shoot their weapons at enemy characters, commissars being a prime target.

 

All in all, I'm not convinced dreadclaw is good enough, Kharybdis is much better value for the points paid.

[misterkho]

kharybdis is an absolute beast..T8 with 16 wounds and 3+..alsmost landraider status..it has 15 shots strength 6 and in close combat it's an absolute monster..base 8 attacks but i usually use the delta attack

1 attack which hits on 2+, wounds on 2+(strength 16!!) ap-4 and 2d6 damage!!! that's melting dreadnoughts in 1 turn..

[Sception]

Best uses imo:

 

Dreadclaw - two units of plasma havocs or chosen, plus a jump or terminator sorcerer with warptime landing next to them to push the dreadclaw into assault range.

 

Kharybdis - larger berzerker squad plus warptime sorcerer to push the berzerkers into assault range in non-alpha legion list, or four units of plasma havocs, plus a jump or terminator sorcerer with warptime landing next to them to push the kharybdis into assault range.

[Khornestar]

I have to admit, the Sorcerer does seem pretty crucial for like... any army list, but there are no filthy witches allowed in the World Eaters. Can't help but feel like I'm hamstringing myself, because Warptime is one of the most crucial tools to get things into assault. The point about Warptiming the pods is a very good one, hmm.

[techsoldaten]

I never use my KAC for assault units anymore. Having to make 9 inch charges is very hard to do, and I lost more than a few units of Berzerkers to overwatch without them getting into combat.

 

The KAC is usually the MVP when I use it. Surprisingly resilient and good at disrupting entire armies when used properly. It's taken out Land Raiders, Wraithknights, HQs, Hive Tyrants, etc, on it's own, usually at places on the board where it's hard to fall back from combat.

 

I usually use it to deliver 2x9 Noise Marine units with full sonics and a sorcerer, with Abaddon deep striking next to where they disembark. The sorcerer casts Warptime on the KAC so it can charge a vehicle, the Noise Marines focus on heavy infantry, and Abaddon is there to buff the shooting for a turn or two. The KAC's base is huge and I can usually have it multicharge several things at once, the melta cutter rules only say that they activate when charging a vehicle / monster - nothing about where you have to place the wounds.

 

While I hate to leave anything standing out in the open - the thing about this strategy, as opposed to Chosen or Havocs, is Noise Marines actually benefit from dying. As they go down Music of the Apocalypse allows them to drop shots on your opponent's HQ. Their overwatch is pretty tough, 30 or so shots usually leads to a few wounds.

[Sception]

yeah, noise marines sound like a good call, too.

 

And don't forget that the claws don't technically /have/ to deep strike.  You can deploy them normally and use them as regular transports.  Not really ideal, but it's an option.

[Khornestar]

Yeah, true. 3" of extra movement over a rhino and they can jump over stuff, but no smoke launchers.

 

The folks at DakkaDakka really love Slaaneshi plasma chosen in a Kharybdis. I think I could try that at some point.

[techsoldaten]

yeah, noise marines sound like a good call, too.

 

And don't forget that the claws don't technically /have/ to deep strike.  You can deploy them normally and use them as regular transports.  Not really ideal, but it's an option.

Yes, but... who would want it to be exposed for a round of shooting?

 

When deep striking, I try to put them at least 12 inches away from the enemy. The KAC moves 15 inches. As long as you get Warptime, that movement usually takes you past the bubble wrap and into location for a substantial assault. At the same time, it makes assaults from your opponent on the passengers hard - they further they have to go, the more punishing it can be.

 

It's a very funny transport / assault option. I don't think you place it to help the occupants. You place it to assault a vehicle / monster, the occupants just have to get out when it hits the board.

 

Question: can units embark on a KAC after it arrives? Several people have said no, I think it should be able to accept passengers, have not tried doing this in a game.

Edited September 15, 2017 by techsoldaten

[Khornestar]

I would say no (i.e. not on the turn it arrives), but it's an interesting question. The KAC arrives at the end of the movement phase, and to embark on a transport a unit has to end its move within 3" of the transport. There's no way I can think of to make it work.