For the "scythes are an impractical weapon" crowd

[Kastor Krieg]

Imagine this with power armour, Space Marine speed and strength, plus Nurgle-infested power blades, where you do not need to cut or stab, merely touch the opponent.

 

And then of course remember these guys. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosynierzy

 

http://phw.org.pl/wp-content/uploads/kosynierzy-powstanie-styczniowe.jpg

 

This should put all those non-sensical "not feasible weapons" arguments to bed, especially for an SF setting like 40k.

[Ulfast]

Very intersting, thanks for puting it here :)

[El_ojo_y_la_sombra]

Any video example of a scythe techniques vs a swordman?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

The war scythes in the bottom two pictures are purpose-built infantry pole arm weapons and in no way resemble the farm implement. The video is all well and good if there's only two guys dueling in the middle of an open field with plenty of room to swing those things around, but that doesn't happen very often in combat involving large numbers of people. Another problem is that agricultural scythes are not built to be piercing weapons and have none of the usual forging methods to strengthen the tip. The first time someone blocked it with a shield, I'd bet the first several inches of it would snap off. 

 

Maybe it's put to bed for you, but please don't assume your opinion speaks for everyone else. 

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Anything has the capacity to be a weapon. True skill lies in making an unweildy weapon a greater one than the more obvious choice.

[Closet Skeleton]

You're still ignoring all context.

 

Power scythes aren't scythes, they're energy axes with a funky shape and no one was arguing otherwise. Similarly, no one argued that scythes aren't cool and that artistic license can't throw out practical concerns in a setting like 40k. Your stubbornness on this topic just makes you sound like your missing the point of our arguments so you can ignore them.

 

Polish war scythes aren't scythes, they're functionally the same as bills or glaives. No one was saying that blades on sticks are bad weapons, you were just making irrelevant etymological associations. The Beretta firearms company is named after a kind of hat; the existence of Beretta pistols does not make the Beretta hat a viable weapon and the existence of warscythes does not make agricultural scythes viable weapons.

 

The Paulus Hector Maires de Athletica scythe techniques are jokes. They're fine if a scythe is what is on hand or both you and your opponent have been arbitrarily forced to both be carrying scythes. What they are not is competitive against actual weapons. Boxing techniques are fine in boxing matches, but no one sends boxers into battle (even if the so called boxer rebellion they carried proper weapons). The shape of a scythe gives you a few gimmicks but those gimmicks are not worth screwing yourself over in all the other ways. There are lots of neat tricks you can do with a barstool but you wouldn't choose a barstool if you were allowed to bring serious weapons to a bar fight. A rolling pin can be a nasty club but armies don't equip themselves with rolling pins over maces.

 

Knives and daggers are quite good weapons, but no one would equip a military unit with them as their primary weapon because they're outclassed by all other weapons. "You can fight with it" is not the same thing as "viable in a military context".

 

There is actually one good argument for using a scythe as a weapon that you missed. If you're a giant flying daemon prince for whom many of your enemies are at the height grass would be to a normal human, using a grass cutter isn't stupid. Sadly the shape of Mortarion's actual scythe isn't optimized for this and normal astartes aren't tall enough unless they're fighting grots.

 

 

Anything has the capacity to be a weapon. True skill lies in making an unweildy weapon a greater one than the more obvious choice.

 

Screwing yourself over to show off requires ridiculous levels of skill but it isn't tactically intelligent in any sense. A true warrior uses his head not his ego.

[Panzer]

Saying Scythes are a viable weapon because Warscythe got used is simply ridiculous. Nobody says Warscythes aren't viable weapons. They are essentially Spears/Glaives anyway. Actual Scythes are something entirely different however.

[Kastor Krieg]

The war scythes in the bottom two pictures are purpose-built infantry pole arm weapons and in no way resemble the farm implement.

Actually, you are 100% wrong. The peasants in the peasant uprisings and the Kosynierzy units did not have purpose made weapons. They were literally their work implements reforged (that is, the mounting part of the weapon was reforged to accomodate a vertical instead of horizontal placement). Otherwise these were the exact same blades.

 

Also, I've shown the video to show the movement range with a proper scythe. In power armour, with a power weapon, it's a weird but feasible weapon of stylistic choice. It's awkward for non-power assisted movement and a blade that needs to shear through not debond particles on touch instead like a power weapon does.

[MoGuy]

If normal humans would be wielding the scythes I would be inclined to say that they are impractical. But we are talking about Space Marines, many times stronger than any mortal. And their scythes have power fields so against anything that hasn't an energy field they simply cut through it.

[Shockmaster]

They look cool though so sign me up for some no matter how unrealistic they may be if 40k ever became a real world historical game. 

[The_son_of_Dorn]

@ closet skelinton.

 

Think you missed my point there too buddy. I was actually saying i consider scythes to be very effective despite their cumbrersome nature.

 

To be honest its always made me think more of mortation and his boys that they could weild such unconventional weaponry.

[Panzer]

 

The war scythes in the bottom two pictures are purpose-built infantry pole arm weapons and in no way resemble the farm implement.

Actually, you are 100% wrong. The peasants in the peasant uprisings and the Kosynierzy units did not have purpose made weapons. They were literally their work implements reforged (that is, the mounting part of the weapon was reforged to accomodate a vertical instead of horizontal placement). Otherwise these were the exact same blades.

 

Also, I've shown the video to show the movement range with a proper scythe. In power armour, with a power weapon, it's a weird but feasible weapon of stylistic choice. It's awkward for non-power assisted movement and a blade that needs to shear through not debond particles on touch instead like a power weapon does.

 

Yeah and for anybody who as even the slightest bit of knowledge about weapon combat would see ton of openings in that video. There's a reason why peasants reforged their Scythe to be more in line with spears and halberds. Because those weapons are actually incredibly efficient and easy to handle while Scythes are not. Again Warscythes (reforged Scythes) are an entirely different kind of weapon as the regular farmer Scythe would be. Nobody is arguing against Warscythes but regular Scythes are just impractical fantasy weapons.

[DuskRaider]

Anything in the hands of an Astartes is a weapon. Anything. The scythe is simply a symbol of Death following the idea of the Grim Reaper who uses his scythe to literally reap the souls of the dead.

[Panzer]

Anything in the hands of an Astartes is a weapon. Anything. The scythe is simply a symbol of Death following the idea of the Grim Reaper who uses his scythe to literally reap the souls of the dead.

That's true, but if you fight against other Astartes you'd rather want a proper weapon and not a chair I'd say. Anyway in 40k it's all about the rule of cool. Who doesn't like Scythes in a space fantasy setting. Just please don't try to argue that they are proper weapons.

[DuskRaider]

Unless it's a Power Chair.

[Panzer]

Yeah but bringing Angry Marines into the discussion is cheating.

[Azekai]

You know what is impractical? Footslogging and hitting your opponents with any melee weapon, scythe or sword.

I am starting to wonder if Death Guard and 40k might not be that realistic!!

In made up space fantasy land, swords do not automatically have to be superior to scythes. Especially if the thing wielding the scythe is a living manifestation of Nurgle's will. 

[The_son_of_Dorn]

They do use guns too you know.

[Azekai]

They do use guns too you know.

You are missing my point completely. The argument of whether 'swords are better than scythes' is silly when guns are clearly better than both IRL. Nonetheless, techno-magic swords and scythes still see lots of use in the far future, because it is a fun and none-too-serious game about space knights with daddy issues. 

[TURBULENCE]

Melee has a place in even modern warfare you know. Without specialized holsters/training an assailant with a knife could shank you before you could draw, disengage the safety and fire back.

[Azekai]

Melee has a place in even modern warfare you know. Without specialized holsters/training an assailant with a knife could shank you before you could draw, disengage the safety and fire back.

That isn't what the Death Guard do! No fancy training, no special holsters, no getting the drop on the enemy unless they are teleporting in via deep strike, but that still isn't really what you are describing.

 

The DG  slowly walk at the enemy and win through grit and attrition. The only reason that works is because a literal death god empowers them and makes it work. Their method of war isn't realistic, it is fantastical and that is ok.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

 

The war scythes in the bottom two pictures are purpose-built infantry pole arm weapons and in no way resemble the farm implement.

Actually, you are 100% wrong. The peasants in the peasant uprisings and the Kosynierzy units did not have purpose made weapons. They were literally their work implements reforged (that is, the mounting part of the weapon was reforged to accomodate a vertical instead of horizontal placement). Otherwise these were the exact same blades.

 

 

Are you being serious or trolling? I can't tell, but REFORGING A WEAPON INTO A NEW SHAPE TO MAKE IT MORE VIABLE FOR COMBAT IS PURPOSE-BUILDING IT FOR A NEW TASK. 

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Lol, just lol.This whole thread.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

​++Mod note++

​Going to close this topic for the time been until I have the time to go though the post & sort this.  The Bolter & Chainsword forum is a place to have discussion about the hobby we all enjoy collecting, gaming & painting.  Not to let discussion get personal among other.