Commander Dawnstar Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 In his second chapter Valerian is reading a copy (of a copy of a copy) of Diocletian Exemplar's The Master of Mankind and is quite clearly looking back on the Custodes before and during the Heresy and regarding them as a greater power than they have ever been during his lifetime. He also makes a comment in his first chapter which draws a line between the Custodes who wore crimson-and-gold and those like himself. Valerian certainly seems to have joined the Custodes some time after the Heresy, but I don't think we're given any indication when that might be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Yeah ok I had forgotten the reading of the book, but I assumed it was a consideration of power bc of all the Custodes killed during the War in the Webway. I took his thoughts on red/gold custodians and himself to be a reflection on roles. Past v present and all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 I’m still not entirely sure if Custodians are genetically grown in vats or if they have normal humans that are implanted with organs in a similar fashion to Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Not grown in vats based on intro to Master of Mankind. Also HH Inferno describes enhancement of normal people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 "Perfection had been threaded through his bones" or something like it. Explicitly not implants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 That's not inherently saying it's not implants, just that they're far more intimate, for want of a better word, than what the Astartes get. In Master of Mankind, they explicitly show that Ra is born human-normal, and that he's later modified, although at a much younger age than what the Astartes are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 9, 2018 Author Share Posted January 9, 2018 Genetic modification on a smaller scale perhaps rather than just lumping new organs inside. Although I’m sure they have a second heart. Secondary organs as backups increases resiliency. Maybe genetic knowledge woven into their DNA and more besides. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4978900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
caladancid Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Genetic modification on a smaller scale perhaps rather than just lumping new organs inside. Although I’m sure they have a second heart. Secondary organs as backups increases resiliency. Maybe genetic knowledge woven into their DNA and more besides. I've gotten the impression it is quite extreme modification (it does make them immortal) to the extent it may as well be creation from scratch, but that it requires that spark of life in the beginning for some reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4979013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Here's a quote from warhammerwiki, which is copied from Inferno: For a child to become one of the Adeptus Custodes, it is known that they must begin the process in their late infancy and certainly before adolescence has taken hold on their physical structure. This stands in stark contrast to the Space Marines whose implantation is only possible after adolescence and best served before full physical maturity. This may link to a second of the few known facts about the creation of the Adeptus Custodes: that the gene-craft and alchemistry that transforms them is as absolute as it is subtle, and worked upon the smallest conceivable microscopic level of their genome and cellular structure. It is a process that effects such change on the mortal human form that, when complete, unless they suffer such massive bodily harm as to forcibly end their lives, they are effectively immortal, without perceptible ageing taking place after full maturity. Not then for the Adeptus Custodes the pattern of surgical grafting and organ implantation that creates a Space Marine, no such crudities of augmentation at all mar the Custodian; what creates them is as invisible as it is potent, worked upon the core genetics and at a deep cellular level, and perhaps tailored to each specific inductee. There are those who insist that so invisible and yet so powerful this process is that it crosses over into a metaphysical realm of biomancy and psychic manipulation on a level unguessed at. Given that it is said that the Emperor Himself has overseen the creation of every single Custodian Guard who has ever lived, this may well be true. The peerless warriors who then result from this arcane process are a rare breed indeed, and not to be squandered recklessly on the battlefield. They were created with a single purpose in mind; to be the Emperor's own elite guard. *edit* adding the link: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Adeptus_Custodes#Wrought_by_the_Emperor.27s_Hand Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4979125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Yeah. That’s what I meant by “on a smaller scale” ... as in right down to the DNA level. It begs the possibility that there are Custodians from the Heresy that are still around today of course and definitely puts them above the Grey Knights who are “just” Astartes but with Emperor gene seed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4979442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 I wondered often if we even surpassed our brothers of old now, the ones who had worn the crimson-and-gold, for we had had so many more centuries to understand the nature of the enemy we fought. That was no doubt prideful, and probably inaccurate, but still the thought often came to me. And: He left no written testimony. The entirety of what we know of Him is revealed either through the records of remembrancers or the ecstatic visions gifted to the faithful. And thus, when a thing is placed in the canon of the certus, the intention behind it can never be fixed with surety. There are arguments nearly ten thousand years old concerning single utterances committed to parchment a hundred years after He spoke last from mortal lips. There are savants in the Tower of Hegemon who have devoted their entire lives to the interpretation of such fragments, and we do not scorn them, for their study is the study of fate’s weft itself. Even now, it is possible to gain enlightenment through meditation on the words of those who lived then. Valerian is definitely not from the Great Crusade/Heresy era. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4980859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Valerian is definitely not from the Great Crusade/Heresy era. I'm old, but I'm not that old. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4997563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Valerian is definitely not from the Great Crusade/Heresy era. I'm old, but I'm not that old. V Love it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4997628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Would you recommand to read Carrion Throne before The Emperor's Legion? Carrion Throne was released in my country a couple of weeks ago. Could be a good distraction until The Emperor's Legion hit the local stores. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4997740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 carrion throne is a great novel though it doesn't require reading before The Emperor's Legion i would say read it anyway though because it is a good one and it does have one character within it who is also featured in The Emperor's Legion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4997775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Would you recommand to read Carrion Throne before The Emperor's Legion? Carrion Throne was released in my country a couple of weeks ago. Could be a good distraction until The Emperor's Legion hit the local stores. Carrion Throne gives an amazing look into the day-to-day life of Terra, whereas Emperors Legion shows things from the rulers perspective, both from the Senate and the Custodians. They aren't directly linked together in any way, but they're certainly complementary. EDIT: Basically, Carrion Throne is mainly about the Inquisition, and shows the lives of the general population, the squalor of living in a planet-wide city, the desperation and stagnancy. Emperors Legion shows the detachment of the goings-on in the Palace, the opulence, and just how the Imperium is actually run, the wheeling-and-dealing of the Imperial Senate, the watchful eyes of the Custodes, and how the most stagnant bureaucracy in human history reacts when everything is turned on its head by the Rift and by Guilliman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4997814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Could modern custodes actually be inferior because the Emp no longer oversees creation? Also... "This stands in stark contrast to the Space Marines whose implantation is only possible after adolescence and best served before full physical maturity." Man, that's weird. In BL works, most Astartes recruits are pre-adolescent,no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4997981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Custodes codex says that they're having the same creation process compared to when the Emperor was still around. Quote: "His might permeates them, his blessings so powerful that they can shield the Custodian from hurts both physical and empyric. The greatness of the Master of Mankind runs in their veins, burns in their eyes, and charges the air around them so all that faithful warriors instinctively respect and fear these demigods of war. ... It is unknown that all Custodians begin their lives as infant sons of the noble houses of Terra." So does that mean that the Custodians are more resistable to warp powers / sorcery? Wouldn't that contradict Inferno, in which the Custodians were relying on the Sisters of Silence in order to protect themselves against the Thousand Sons' sorcery? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4998020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Ehh, not necessarily. It's like the difference between being resistant to blows from sticks and making sticks crumble into dust when you get near them. One is significantly more proactive and far-reaching than the other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4998034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 To put it another way, their nature gives them a slight ability to brush off psychic powers coming their way. The Sisters of Silence prevent the attack from even occurring, and basically drive the psyker nearly insane. When Magnus can basically rewrite reality itself, you don't want to take any chances. Shut it down hard, don't rely on it maybe not hurting that much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4998036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted January 31, 2018 Share Posted January 31, 2018 Custodes codex says that they're having the same creation process compared to when the Emperor was still around. Quote: "His might permeates them, his blessings so powerful that they can shield the Custodian from hurts both physical and empyric. The greatness of the Master of Mankind runs in their veins, burns in their eyes, and charges the air around them so all that faithful warriors instinctively respect and fear these demigods of war. ... It is unknown that all Custodians begin their lives as infant sons of the noble houses of Terra." So does that mean that the Custodians are more resistable to warp powers / sorcery? Wouldn't that contradict Inferno, in which the Custodians were relying on the Sisters of Silence in order to protect themselves against the Thousand Sons' sorcery? It's cool that you'll be resistant to soul corrupting powers and generally able to straight willpower your way through a psychic attack but it's better if your companion can prevent the attack and utterly gimp your psychic enemy entirely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4998709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascanius Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 "This stands in stark contrast to the Space Marines whose implantation is only possible after adolescence and best served before full physical maturity." Man, that's weird. In BL works, most Astartes recruits are pre-adolescent,no? I always thought it was like 11-15 or so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4999226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Wasn't Zahariel 7? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-4999257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeLeto69 Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Late to the party but finally got around to reading this book. Fantastic. Chris Wraight is getting better and better. It really is one of the standout books from 2017. I really hope that this and Carrion Throne are first books in their respective series rather than standalone novels. This was also the first book I have read set against the backdrop of the Great Rift etc. Nice to see that unfolding. Personally I would have preferred it if the Indomitus Campaign was ongoing rather than all the fiddling with the timeline...in other words it is the Indomitus Campaign that is the setting now for the game rather than the aftermath. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-5046423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manchu warlord Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I hope Chris Wraith writes another book of this style, and making it a "Terran-based" trilogy.The Carrion Throne was about the Inquisition, but talks a lot about the common citizenry. The Emperor's Legion is about the Custodes, Anathema Pskkana (gotta say it by its right term, otherwise She'll slap you), and Imperial politics.What these books both have in common is the custodian "Navradarran". So maybe, if Wraight does a third book, it could be (primarily) about Imperial guards, or Imperial Fists, or other Terran fighting forces. It'll take place post-Gathering Storm, and Navradarran will be in there somehow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/339442-watchers-of-the-throne-the-emperors-legion/page/11/#findComment-5047015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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