Watchers of the Throne: The Emperor's Legion

[Petitioner's City]

 

 

this bad boy just turned up in the mail.

 

that and Jamie Oliver's 5 Ingredients book.

 

had to get something sci-fi kewl to go along with the house proud culinary adult life mallarkey.

Ha, thay fits the food focus of the first chapter!

 

But what will you make? Also how is it compared to Oliver's other books?

 

 

lol read the first chapter last night and i get what you mean

 

as for oliver: theyre all super easy to make foods and i eat everything that doesnt have coconut or peanut butter in it so it is pretty much an entire book of things i will make  

 

 

Tasty! And something I should invest in, for late-from-work meals.

[Ogun]

Read it, adored it. 

 

I'm not sure what Chris Wraight has been fed over the past few years, but he has grown from a decent BL author into a superlative one. 

 

I know this is not a direct sequel to The Carrion Throne, but it many ways it serves as one. It picks up the squalor and powder keg insanity of Terra portrayed in CT and then lights the fuse. 

 

The tie in to the GS and new 8th ed rulebook lore was interestingly done. Rather than treat the GS lore as gospel he has treatment,ed it like any Codex entry i.e. the GS lore is the legend, the reality is something else. On top of that he then throws in the unreliable narrator. GS, for example, says all the Black Templars died on the Terran Crusade, but then the chancellor recalls seeing them alive on Luna. One account is legend, the other the reminiscences of an old man. Which is the actual truth is impossible to say. (Though, I like the idea that he might have been looking at the Fallen and assumed they were Black Templars). 

My only incredibly mild disappointment is that I would have enjoyed a little bit more time with the Chancellor and the politicking of the High Lords. I just felt a little bit of room could have been spared without any unnecessary bloating to the plot. Particularly I would have liked to see a bit more about how they operated in the post-Beast Arises world.

[Sete]

Heresy of the highest order to mistake the Chosen of the Emperor, with some dudes that haven fallen (eh) from HIS light.

[HeritorA]

 

 

Almost everyone of us agree that Watchers 'first' part of the novel is really good and sometimes amazing. It's getting worse in the second part, sadly

 

 

Absolutely disagree, second part of the book was even better, it's brilliant from start to finish. C'mon, it's WARhammer, "bolterporn" always was and always will be an essential part of the universe. IMO, the best book Chris Wraight ever wrote.

 

BTW, does anyone know what the short story Blood Guilt is about? 

 

 

Well - for me Carrion Throne was brilliant due to it's descriptiveness and setting. Watchers start very solidly. But then Warp Rift appeared - it was very 'bolter-pornish'. What I mean  - Wraight usualy creates a vivid, real and talented description of unfolding events.

 

Here it doesn't feel right.

Rift appeared, fighting commenced, all the terror and 'epicness' of the Khorne Warp Rift on Terra is lost.

Same with the appearance of Guilliman - it is slided over very quickly.

[R_F_D]

I'm about 50% of the way through, I'm still loving it.

 

As I don't game, I must admit, the whole Gathering Storm has passed me by although I have picked up some of the finer points via osmosis from B&C.

 

Am I right in thinking that the narrative order is Legacy of the Wulfen , Watchers of the hrone, Justin Hill's Cadia books and then Dark Imperium?

[Chapter Master Valrak]

Finished it, loved it.  Cannot wait to see where this series takes us.

[HeritorA]

I'm about 50% of the way through, I'm still loving it.

 

As I don't game, I must admit, the whole Gathering Storm has passed me by although I have picked up some of the finer points via osmosis from B&C.

 

Am I right in thinking that the narrative order is Legacy of the Wulfen , Watchers of the hrone, Justin Hill's Cadia books and then Dark Imperium?

 

First goes Warzone Fenris.

Which is followed by Carrion Throne, which is running parallel to Cadia Stands.

After goes Watchers of the Throne.

And then Dark Imperium - 100 years later, lol

[Ranwulf]

Finished, and I really liked it. I became quite fond of the three narrators, even though Aleya constant irritation always felt a bit overdone. 

 

Ran

[Apothecary Vaddon]

even though Aleya constant irritation always felt a bit overdone. 

 

Ran

constant irritation? CONSTANT IRRITATION? WELL LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HOW THE SISTERHOOD HAS BEEN NEGLECTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS YOU STUCK UP FOOL

[MyD4rkPassenger]

I was extremely excited for this book, so much so that I was worried it would disappoint, thankfully it did not.  I came into this mostly for another Custodes experience, coming off the heels of CT and Master of Mankind, but found myself really enjoying the politics of terra.  I hope this turns into an actual series, as I really began to like the 3 protagonists.  

 

As for the bolter porn ending, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to see Valerian and the other Custodes fighting. I think the Imagery was quite strong when the bloodthirster challenged the small group, specifically when Valerian leapt into the air to pierce the heart of the bloodthirster. Fanboying aside, I understand why some didn't like the sudden lurch into the massive battle.    

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Yeah, same for me. I was at the point in the novel where I wanted to see some serious kickass, and boy did I get it. Loved every word

[Sothalor]

Just finished this one. I have to say, this is the favorite thing I've read out of Black Library this year, and that's saying something, considering we also got Black Legion and The Carrion Throne.

 

I loved the characters and the way each POV narration had its own distinct voice and tone that utterly drew me into the world and the events. I loved the look we got into the Throneworld of the Imperium crumbling under the stress of the 13th Black Crusade. This is what 40k 8th Edition has really needed, a boots-level, intimate view of being caught up in these apocalyptic events.

 

I loved the insight we got into how the Custodes and the Sisters of Silence have changed since the Great Crusade and the disparate courses these organizations have taken. I loved getting the perspective of somebody close to the High Lords, self-aware enough of the excesses and privileges of being one of the ruling class but also painfully cognizant of the responsibilities that come with it.

 

I would argue that the third act isn't bolter porn at all; it's a fantastic culmination of the character arcs in the novel.

] The battle of Lion's Gate is where Valerian finally comes into his own, where things become clear for him; where he has to come to realize that for all his inclinations as a scholar he is at his core a being crafted for battle. That moment of epiphany where he recognizes his purpose, his telos - well, that had to come in a battle. And I'd argue it had to come in a battle so far removed from his day-to-day experience of intrigues and blood games to really drive that home.

 

Likewise, the incursion to Vorlese is the climax of Aleya's arc. It's that experience of Valerian trusting her and arranging that little trip that finally draws her (if only a little) from the bitterness and anger she's been stewing in the whole book. Yes, they've already fought together during Lion's Gate, but that was the Sisters getting thrown into the sharp edge without agency. Vorlese is, arguably, more of a result of the Sisters' initiative than the Custodians'. It's where she finally gets to see the Custodians live up to her philosophy of "say less, do more." And it's where things click for her, that moment of "huh, this might work out after all."

 

All in all, highly recommended, both as a tight character-driven story and as a look and expansion into the 40k setting. I really hope we see more of these characters from Chris Wraight.

[HeritorA]

 

even though Aleya constant irritation always felt a bit overdone. 

 

Ran

constant irritation? CONSTANT IRRITATION? WELL LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HOW THE SISTERHOOD HAS BEEN NEGLECTED FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS YOU STUCK UP FOOL

 

And should be neglected for another thousand

 

MyD4rkPassenger

Point is about that bolter-porn ending - Wraight could do much better. As he already proved almost in each novel.

[R_F_D]

I'm 80% of the way through and intend to finish it this evening.  From what I have read, it is superlative.  I have no issue with the fight scenes I have read.  I did not find them to be gratuitous bolter porn.  I do find this criticism of the appearance of bolter porn in Watchers somewhat odd, I mean; that very tagline of 40K is In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war.... you kinda of expect to see some "Shooty Death Kill" in a 40K book.  Or have I missed the point?

 

Edit:

Finished it last night along with "Blood Guilt" this morning.  As someone who hasn't gamed or modelled since 2nd/3rd edition, this was a fantastic read in bringing the setting right up to date for me and actually makes me want to fill in the gaps of my knowledge of 40k which have developed over the last 15-20 years.

 

Blood Guilt, for those asking, nice short relating to Navradaran's involvement in Watcher's.  Throws up an adversary that I would love to know more about.

[Petitioner's City]

For me the problem is, the world building, the setting and the characterisation all interest me, but the war only to a wee extent, but not greatly, since ultimately in the dozens of BL novels I've read, there's always some bloody war or battle at play.

 

My favourite novels take me away from the frontline, and instead tell me how the setting, at a macro or micro level, functions.

 

Moreso, the most profound or most interesting war novels and films have quite minimal scenes of conflict, moments of punctuation, but it doesn't become overwhelming. Indeed, Pariah, for example, is an interesting example of this.

 

Unfortunately, for me, the ending of this novel became claustrophobic, and worse, carried a terrible sense of ennui.

 

Compare this to how violence plays out - sometimes far darker - in other science fiction/fantasy novels, like The Expanse, for example. Short, sudden, deeply traumatic, but buoyed by excellent, witty, fascinating characterisation of a range of character types which makes the battles all the more meaningful & painful.

 

Ultimately the need for big battles, even in the seemingly most nuanced of 40k novels, really disappoints me. The setting is far more than than battle - just as 'war' is far more than battle. War is a mentality, a background thunder, a state of economy, an ideology. This novel embraced this, to an extent, but then it seemed to me that this went out the window, and I was sad. I really enjoyed it til then.

 

Sorry for the long post, processing. Its ultimately just ennui, and a hope for difference - the chance for the franchise to stretch and roll and be as varied as other IPs. Its my dream that a 40k novel which doesn't feature a single act of physical violence directly is released, indeed I hope that more and more can be conceived. Maybe I had hoped that would be this, somehow.

[HeritorA]

For me the problem is, the world building, the setting and the characterisation all interest me, but the war only to a wee extent, but not greatly, since ultimately in the dozens of BL novels I've read, there's always some bloody war or battle at play.

 

My favourite novels take me away from the frontline, and instead tell me how the setting, at a macro or micro level, functions.

 

Moreso, the most profound or most interesting war novels and films have quite minimal scenes of conflict, moments of punctuation, but it doesn't become overwhelming. Indeed, Pariah, for example, is an interesting example of this.

 

Unfortunately, for me, the ending of this novel became claustrophobic, and worse, carried a terrible sense of ennui.

 

Compare this to how violence plays out - sometimes far darker - in other science fiction/fantasy novels, like The Expanse, for example. Short, sudden, deeply traumatic, but buoyed by excellent, witty, fascinating characterisation of a range of character types which makes the battles all the more meaningful & painful.

 

Ultimately the need for big battles, even in the seemingly most nuanced of 40k novels, really disappoints me. The setting is far more than than battle - just as 'war' is far more than battle. War is a mentality, a background thunder, a state of economy, an ideology. This novel embraced this, to an extent, but then it seemed to me that this went out the window, and I was sad. I really enjoyed it til then.

 

Sorry for the long post, processing. Its ultimately just ennui, and a hope for difference - the chance for the franchise to stretch and roll and be as varied as other IPs. Its my dream that a 40k novel which doesn't feature a single act of physical violence directly is released, indeed I hope that more and more can be conceived. Maybe I had hoped that would be this, somehow.

Yes. IN comparison wit Carrion Throne which was better - Watchers travel into the range of 'bolter porn' too much. Plus that's probably first Wraight novel in which I didn't like battle scenes at all.

Then we have politic and setting 'chapters' the book is good. When we get to the Custodes and SoS fighting - nothing special or outstanding (as usually expected from the Wraight prose)

[hopkins]

Absolutely incredible, his description of Terra and the daemonic invasion had me utterly hyped for the potential of him getting a shot at the HH siege, more specifically Lion's Gate

[Knockagh]

Just finished this last night. Can’t praise it enough. Super read, loved it all. I’m not one who usually enjoys fight scenes, usually due to them going on and on but this book hit a healthy balance with short fight scenes peppering a super novel. I love first person writing so that was a bonus. Also the first book that made the new setting in any way appealing to me.

 

If your out there Chris more from the vaults of terra please!!

[Carach]

it is a great novel though i think it does lose steam a little after the nerdgasm part

when Rob comes to town

 

and feeling a lil like the custodes get a bit too OP by the end.  

[Xisor]

I absolutely loved this. An amazing novel. Teeny gripe:

 

I was a little surprised that that business with Be'lakor and the Phalanx didn't get a mention. Like "remember how we were on high alert after the Phalanx almost crashed into Terra and then the Imperial Fists just vanished?". Seems like someone at GW isn't communicating the whole thing out. Whoever the PM was for TGS needs to be taken to task on it.

 

Probably my most quotable/highlighted novel yet.

 

And who would have thought I'd sympathise so much with the Master of the Administratum?! And what a gruelling business with that beacon?!

 

Preposterously well done.

[b1soul]

 

and feeling a lil like the custodes get a bit too OP by the end.

 

I feel FW Inferno takes the cake with regard to OP Custodes...where each Custodes is worth dozens of Astartes

[bluntblade]

Having now read Inferno, I concur on that

[b1soul]

Having now read Inferno, I concur on that

It does the SW no favours either

 

If 1,000 Custodes are equivalent to 24,000, 36,000 Astartes...that means the SW were helped tremendously by Valdor and his Custodes contingent

[ShadowSwordmaster]

I like what they call the Sisters of Silence in this. Also, didn't expect the Grey Knights to play a part in this. 

[bluntblade]

 

Having now read Inferno, I concur on that

It does the SW no favours either

If 1,000 Custodes are equivalent to 24,000, 36,000 Astartes...that means the SW were helped tremendously by Valdor and his Custodes contingent

To a point. Valdor arrived with a better understanding of the ground situation than Russ started with.