High drops 2nd turn woes

[Hopper21]

I wanted to start a thread and see how you all deal and negate always getting 2nd turn. I'm finding a lot because I have a load of stuff to deploy in my army i'm always getting lumped with 2nd turn. With the result of all my shooty stuff getting smashed of the table turn one.

 

Any way to negate this? Tactics or anything?

[Captain Idaho]

It's only really possible with decent target saturation and line of sight blocking terrain.

 

That's pretty much it for me though mate.

[Brother Captain Ed]

What are taking that is so drop heavy?

 

Also are you using the Chapter Approved first turn selection?

[Hopper21]

Using smurfs I've got a 9 drop list. We wernt using the chapter approved thing as I wasn't sure if tournament organisers are using it?

[Stoic Raptor]

Cover.  At the very least, put your units in cover - especially those that will take penalties from moving and firing.  If you can manage it, put your stuff behind terrain that blocks line of sight.

If you stand out in the open, expect to get shot.  Always deploy with the expectation that you will not go first.

[Captain Idaho]

Indeed, that will help.

 

There are some little tricks. Transports that can have a couple units at a time are one way of condensing down your drops down.

[Kinstryfe]

Experience with Guard and literally always going second so far: if you think or know you'll be going second, deploy defensively. Take advantage of as much cover or line of sight blocking terrain as you can. Make your less important units tempting targets by leaving a sacrificial unit in plain view and hope they go for easy pickings instead of the more important entrenched units. You're basically weighing increased survivability first turn versus taking some negatives on first turn shooting from moving in ways you may not have normally moved on the first turn, but at the very least you can force some hard decisions out of your opponent.

[Prot]

We play with the FAQ in effect. So at worst it's a normal D6 to go first with a chance to steal.

 

The Redemptor is huge though. It decreases a Primaris drop count and provides decent LoS blocking.

[TrexPushups]

I am going to have to figure this out as I am bringing a brigade to a tournament in November so I have 18 drops.

 

I am not worried about deepstrikers etc as I am bringing 3 units of scouts to completely shut down any deployment shenanigans.

[Frater Cornelius]

Even if the +1 on roll-off when finishing first goes through, it is a fsr greater advantage, than it appears. We have tried it on multiple occasions. The chance of going first it really high. If you roll a 6, it is over, because the opponent can not beat a 7. If the opponent rolls a 1, you can not lose. If you roll equal, you win. If you roll one below, you tie and force a re-roll. It is still worth going for it.

 

I have yet to encounter a list, that could deploy less than me AND threaten me with massed ranged firepower. I can go as low as 7 drops at 1850-2000. Those that have less were mostly melee lists, at which point I can really go ham and inflate my list to 13 drops and force the opponent to deploy his things before knowing where I deploy.

 

This is achieved by transports and playing with combat squads. You can always not combat squad your unit and instead use the Stratagem. If you run UM, you can be very liberal with those. I also include a Razorback in my Primaris lists so that Scouts and a Tech Marine can deploy inside and reduce the drop count.

 

Well, as for surviving going second... Though question. Even if you finish first, deploy as if the enemy will steal initiative, something that will happen roughly 73% of the time, if you are like me :D

Beyond that, I really like using sacrificial units. Fot example, against Smite-heavy lists I deploy the Razorback at the front and tank thr MW with Armour of Contempt. Against T1 melee rushes I tend to deploy Scouts forward to block the deep strike and build a wall. I think part of the solution is list-building. Build a list that can win with 75% of its original strength and still do well at 50%. The rest is redundancy and good-to-have units.

[Hopper21]

Can you still seize the initiative after the +1 rolloff?

[Frater Cornelius]

Can you still seize the initiative after the +1 rolloff?

 

Yes, so an even higher chance. But it is still only a chance.

[TrexPushups]

Deepstrike attacks are the only type of alpha strike I am certain I don't need to worry about.

 

Nothing can get me from the front because I use3 units of scouts to jam my opponent into their deployment zone.

 

Nothing is going to get my flank or rear because I have 2 cheap attack bikes to control space behind and to the side of my forces.

 

Now units that want to shoot me or warp time moving daemon primarchs I don't utter shutdown. So I have only cut off a few attack vectors.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well,there is still long-ranged firepower. Never underestimate a gunline with re-rolls, for example. Those hurt the most.