2000 pts. Raptors Army for a upcoming GT

[Noxnoctis22]

I posted this in the general Space Marine Army List forum but didn't get any comments/suggestions. I'm hoping if I post it here I can get some feedback.

 

Below is a Raptors list I'm thinking of playing at a local GT in a few weeks. Looking to give it a test this weekend. Thoughts?

 

BATTALION DETACHMENT (+3 CP)

 

HQ

Lias Issodon

Lieutenant - Chainsword, Master-crafter Boltgun, Bolt Pistol

 

TROOPS

Scout Squad (5) - Bolt Pistol, Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks

Scout Squad (5) - Bolt Pistol, Boltgun

Scout Squad (5) - Bolt Pistol, Boltgun

 

ELITES

Company Veterans (4) - Bolt Pistol, 1x Combi-plasma, 3x Plasma Gun

Sternguard Veteran Squad (5) - Special Issue Boltgun

 

FLYER

Stormraven Gunship - Twin Assault Cannon, Twin Heavy Bolter, 2x Stormstrike Missile Launcher, 2x Hurricane Bolter

 

Xiphon Interceptor - 2x Twin Lascannon, Xiphon Missile Battery

 

DEDICATED TRANSPORT

Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter

Razorback - Twin Assault Cannon, Storm Bolter

 

VANGUARD DETACHMENT (+1CP)

 

HQ

Librarian w/Jump Pack - Bolt Pistol, Force Sword

 

ELITES

Aggressor Squad (3) - Auto Boltstorm Gaunlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Venerable Dreadnought - Multi-melta, Dreadnought Combat Weapon, Heavy Flamer

Relic Whirlwind Scorpius - Scorpius Multi-launcher

 

TOTAL POINTS - 2000 POINTS

[Damo1701]

Grab the Primarchs Wrath for that Lieutenant. A free upgrade for that MC Boltgun.

 

Only thing that might be concerning is whether you are making best use of Issodon. What were you planning on infiltrating with him?

[Noxnoctis22]

I was still up in the air with what relic I was going to take. The idea of The Primarch's Wrath is a great one for that Lt.. Also was planing on giving him the Storm of Fire Warlord Trait.

 

I plan on bringing in the Lt., Sternguard and Company Veterans with Issodon. I was always planing on using SFTS for the Aggressor Squad.

[Damo1701]

Sounds like a good plan there.

 

 

[Alcyon]

Customary grain of salt, I still haven't played a single game of this edition.

 

So if I understand the strategy correctly, your scouts deploy in the midfield (except for the snipers), then if you get turn 1, you SftS the Aggressors into range, then deploy your veterans and HQs in support. Stormraven and Xiphon provide air support while your Razorbacks drive up the board to get into range.

 

If you end up going second, you can SftS the Aggressors into cover in the midfield and drive up the Razorbacks, then spring a turn 2 alpha on them by deploying Lias and his guys on your first turn.

 

I was going to say, if you're taking a Stormraven, all the things you mentioned will fit in it including the Dreadnought. Or they can go in the Razorbacks. Seems like there's some duplication of transport methods and you might be able to find more points-efficient ways to get those weapons in your list. But then you wouldn't be able to hold them in reserve or necessarily shoot with them immediately on your first turn, so I see how you ended up with this.

 

I'd be concerned about anti-tank capability. The Scorpius looks to replace more plasma which is good, plus you have the Xiphon's ML and weight of fire with the Assault Cannons, but none of those are AP 3/4 and they barely do more than 2 damage (overcharge, Xiphon ML.) I'd replace the nose guns on the Stormraven with Multi-Meltas, and if you're married to the Razorbacks I'd think about giving one twin Lascannons. 

 

Why the Librarian, what's he going to do? Buff the dread with Might of Heroes I'd guess? Seems like overkill - a Techmarine would be cheaper and probably similarly useful. Or you could take a Captain instead, I dunno if you want to bunch the Aggressors up with the Veterans enough to let Lias' aura affect them all.

 

Also 5 Sniper Rifles probably isn't enough to be worth it, could shave some points there. The camo cloaks especially seem like a waste on such a low-priority target, I wouldn't really expect anything to be shooting at them.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

The scouts can deploy midfield on an objective to get a quick maelstrom lead, or be used as bubble wrap, or go into the Storm Raven or Razorbacks to reduce drop count and increase chances of first turn (if applicable).

 

The Xiphon has 4 Lascannons, right? I agree with you it still seems a tad light on AT.

 

The librarian as a one-of drop I assume is intended to be used with Null Zone to counter things like Bobby G? Otherwise I guess he is still a decent source of mortal wounds.

 

I agree on the snipers, 5 of them with camo cloaks doesnt feel like enough saturation to matter at any important task.

 

I like the list overall, it feels like its very flexible. However, it does feel spread a little thin. I would pick some of the themes and try to reinforce those, and abandon the rest. 

 

Lastly, I think Twin Las on the Ven Dread is superior to the Multi-Melta in every way.

[Noxnoctis22]

@Alcyon & Itvyper - I've read both of your comments and will address them together below with my deepers thoughts for each unit mentioned.

 

Scouts (Bolguns) - As you stated I plan on using them a few ways. One being able to jump on objectives and the "relic" early in games. Another being used to create a bubble wrap if needed to prevent DSing units. Lastly they can deploy in any of the transport I have to reduce drops. Also I'm choosing them to fill my TROOPS slots at a low point cost.

 

Scouts (Sniper) - I have read/heard that a 5-man squad just isn't that cost effective but I do have them there for a few reasons as well. I can have them sit on a backfield objective and be a bit tougher to dislodge, -1 to hit because of the CT and the +2 to cover save for the cloaks. They're also one of two sources I have for mortal wounds, granted not a great source but one none the less. I do see how this TROOP choice isn't cost effective. This may be a spot I can make changes and shave points.

 

Aggressors - I'll SFTS them if I go first or even second. Where I deploy them will be a reaction to what my enemy's forces are and how they're deployed. Also another unit that can get on an objective early and possible get in some cover to last longer. The power fists they have to aren't what I want to use them for but at least it's an option I have if need be for whatever I may face.

 

Issodon, Lt, Sternguard & Company Vets - This seems like a pretty solid tactic not much more to say here as I'm sure we all know how these units work together.

 

Xiphon - Is there as my anti-flyer but also there to pose a threat to my enemy that may not have an ideal counter for it. It is one of my main sources of AT with it's 2 twin-lascannons, it's not a ton of fire power but I feel it's a threat to any units, flyer or not on the table.

 

Stormraven - It's my flying tank, I don't have nor have I ever liked to play tanks with any of my RG/Raptors armies. Getting the Multi-melta on that would greatly increase my AT firepower, I just need to squeeze points out for that. It will also deliver my next unit to where I need it most pretty fast.

 

Dreadnought - I went with the Venerable over the base one as I had the points but I do feel the increase BS and 6+ ignore wound roll will help it do more and last longer. I choose the MM as the Stormraven will be able to get it close to it's target and it will make better use of the 2D6 damage rolls. If I went with a Twin-lascannon instead would you still recommend I play it this way? Or would I add it to the firebase in the back?

 

Razorbacks - The assault cannon has been tested over and over again and just keeps performing well. If I'm able to get them within the aura of my Lt. with the "Storm of Fire" warlord trait they'll be even more potent. I do like having them as LOS blocking tools too, in a pinch they can help out in interesting ways. Switching one to a Twin-lascannon one may be a way to get my AT firepower into my list, all comes down to points...

 

Librarian - Kinda was the last addition to my army. I went with the jump pack as it allows me to put him where I want him and move and adjust later on even easier. His my other source of mortal wounds and Null Zone would be there to try and shut things down if they get out of hand.

 

A lot comes down to the models I have and the amount of WYSIWYG I have to stick to so I can't just be adding in anything under the sun. Trying my best to work what I have yet still make a decent fighting force. Thanks for all the feedback.

 

IF I had to trim fat/points where do you feel are the couple of place I can do that?

 

Where would be the first place or two to add those points back in?

[Nusquam]

Some good points already but I would lean towards Typhoon on the nose of the Raven. MMs are expensive for something that only gets real benefits within 12". Plus the Typhoon offers coverage too for more dakka in a pinch; Ive seen what 90 infiltrating cultists can do ha.That eith the wing missiles and xiphon can take bites out of enemy armor.

 

That typo while funny was noooot what i intended ha

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

In regards to where to trim points/spend points:

 

I would probably convert the librarian to another Captain, depending on loadout this could save you 42-20 points. I think you will be better served to have the captain in your deployment zone with the razorbacks for the reroll to hit on them, and I dont expect they will end up near Lias unti late game, and you will want to advance with them often I imagine.

 

I agree with Nus in regards to MM vs Typhoon. One of the strengths of having a flyer (esp one as durable as the stormraven) is keeping it at a further range to make yourself less susceptible to small arms (and flamers, DONT FORGET THE FLAMERS, DAMO WILL REMIND YOU). I think you can easily keep it at your current cheap/dakka config, or swap to Typhoon.

 

I would probably drop the sniper scouts (pending models and WSYWIG ofc). I just don't think the scouts and librarian is a reliable source of enough mortal wounds to make a difference. If you convert the Sniper scouts to bolter scouts, that save 35 points, or you can convert them to 5 Tacticals and still save 25 points.

 

I think in regards to the Dread you can keep the DCCW with Twin Las, and put him in the Stormraven, and threaten midfield, or you can camp the back line, and if you do that, he really should have the ML arm, imo.

[Noxnoctis22]

Swapped/changed units below in the latest list. Anything NOT listed remain as is.

 

 

Librarian w/Jump Pack ~~~> Captain w/Jump Pack - Bolt Pistol, Power Sword

 

Sniper Scout Squad ~~~> Tactical Squad (5) - Boltguns, Bolt Pistols

 

Venerable Dreadnought - MM, DCW w/HF ~~~> Venerable Dreadnought - Twin lascannon, DCW w/HF

 

Stormraven Gunship - Twin Heavy Bolter + extras ~~~> Stormraven Gunship - Typhoon missile launcher + extras

 

 

Thoughts on the changes?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

Update us on how the event goes!

Edited September 20, 2017 by ltvyper

[Alcyon]

Sounds great. I would maybe try and squeeze a Heavy Bolter into one of the Troops squads because the Hellfire Shells stratagem is pretty good. Otherwise, stoked to hear how it goes. Good luck!

[Noxnoctis22]

Minor problem...

 

The Dreadnought I currently have painted and ready to play is the Multi-melta & DCW from the AOBR box set so that loadout is good to go. I do have a 2 Dreadnoughts with the Twin lascannon & DCW BUT they're painted to match my smaller DA Deathwing army and another for my Deathwatch army. It would drive me nuts to play a model that doesn't match my overall army. It sounds a bit crazy but that's me. In a pinch it might have to be done...

 

I do have another option, a Contemptor Dreadnought w/Kheres-pattern Assault Cannon, no an anti-tank threat but maybe that may be better for my army overall. Better option then what I've listed above? Maybe give me points to play with further.

[thewarriorhunter]

I've run a contemptor a few times in 8th and it's one of my favorite units. The cannon shreds infantry and if he gets into CC he's a beast. 4 attacks at STR 14 (i think). BS 2+ if stationary and 3+ on moving is still good. He's decently fast as well. I think the cannon is AP-1 as well.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

The Contemptor is definitely a beast, its one of the units I have played the most in 8th. The biggest issue will be making room for the points, but if you can I say go for it.

[Race Bannon]

Agreed for Contemptor on paper.  

[thewarriorhunter]

The Contemptor is definitely a beast, its one of the units I have played the most in 8th. The biggest issue will be making room for the points, but if you can I say go for it.

 

I think you might need to consider building around the contemptor because of the cost of it. Trying to fit it in can get hard, but if you know it's going to be one of the key units in your list having that as a starting place may make it easier to fill in around it.

[Claws and Effect]

I'd actually consider keeping the sniper scouts. Not necessarily for their own usefulness, but because they can make an opponent second guess where they put commanders and target priority.

 

A guard player isn't going to want to put a company commander in range of those guys and might aim more fire in their direction than is really merited.

 

On paper 5 of them aren't worth much. But people don't think on paper.

[Noxnoctis22]

Just realized a pretty big issue this morning...

 

If I want to take Issodon and "ambush" 3 units with him I need to take them as RAPTORS, duh....

 

If I want to SFTS the Aggressors I need to take them as RAVEN GUARD...

 

B/c they're two different CHAPTERS they would need to be in two different detachments for this to work. If I do that I'll run into issues with auras from my HQ units only working with certain units. I'd also have to take one HQ and two more ELITE slots with the Aggressors to make a legal Vanguard Detachment, most likely the Contemptor and Scorpius...

 

This is a monkey wrench for sure. Any thoughts or solutions for this?

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

The Space Marine codex basically says the same thing under both Chapter Tactics and Strategems:

 

If your chapter doesn't have an associated Chapter Tactic, use the Chapter Tactic (or Strategem) of its founding Chapter

 

This means you should be good to go. Obviously Raptors are one of a handful of Chapters with a special character, so maybe just shoot an e-mail to the tournament coordinator first? I would cite the SM Codex (and the Forgeworld Index if applicable, I dont own a copy of that)

[Noxnoctis22]

The Space Marine codex basically says the same thing under both Chapter Tactics and Strategems:

 

If your chapter doesn't have an associated Chapter Tactic, use the Chapter Tactic (or Strategem) of its founding Chapter

 

This means you should be good to go. Obviously Raptors are one of a handful of Chapters with a special character, so maybe just shoot an e-mail to the tournament coordinator first? I would cite the SM Codex (and the Forgeworld Index if applicable, I dont own a copy of that)

 

You are 1000% correct. I just didn't dig deep enough once I thought about this. Thanks!

[Nusquam]

With the new IG regiment rulrs reveal about character sniping orders you may want to consider command squads for Issodon. Hes good but his lack of an invul is a glaring exploitable weakness.

 

I mean vindicares counter him anyway because they ignore cover but an IG lascannon team is going to hurt if hes caught out of cover

[Damo1701]

With the new IG regiment rulrs reveal about character sniping orders you may want to consider command squads for Issodon. Hes good but his lack of an invul is a glaring exploitable weakness.

 

I mean vindicares counter him anyway because they ignore cover but an IG lascannon team is going to hurt if hes caught out of cover

Lascannon won't be affected, as it's only rapid fire weapons like plasma guns and lasguns. Unless he is the closest target.

[Nusquam]

Phew thats good. I missed that, text is so tiny on my phone. Still though, plasma guns sniping characters is a scary thought

[Noxnoctis22]

Well the Company Veterans have the following rule....

 

Command Squad Bodyguard: Roll a dice each time a friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this squad can intercept that hit – the character does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.

 

So I can also use those guys to save Issodon if things get dicey.