Was the Khorne Lord of Skulls a mistake?

[Lord_Starscream]

I've been looking over options for a Lord of War for my Chaos Space Marines, and it's kinda pointing me in the direction of a Renegade Knight, something which I'll probably have to convert, or that I'll get the Forgeworld upgrade for.

 

What's interesting, is it got me thinking of what a missed opportunity this was for GW. I don't really know anyone who got a Lord of Skulls, or was interested in it who plays Chaos. Overwhelmingly, most people I know would either be looking at Primarchs, or Renegade Knights. Now, this isn't the end of the world by any means, it just seems that the Khorne Lord of Skulls is kinda mostly... unwanted.

 

Firstly its linked to one Chaos God, which means if you play Emperor's Children, Death Guard, or Thousand Sons, or a renegade monogod army, its basically out of the question for it. Next its because even if you play an Undivided Army, the Chaos Knight probably makes more sense to you ascetically anyway. So that means it was built for people playing a mono Khorne Army. Which I'm sure is not the majority of players. What's worse, the Renegade Knight would probably have been very popular among this group as well.

 

This isn't to rag on GW or anything. I like a lot of what there doing, I just figured I'd ask a question to my good-willed fellows. I just feel like the Chaos Super-Heavy miniatures range really lags behind without something like a Renegade Knight in it, which people could really turn to anything they want. People can still do that anyway of course, but it just strikes me as odd.

 

EIther way. Have a good one everyone! And I look forward to reading your responses. :)

[bozo69pd]

It's great for narrative games?

[Lukash_]

There's a very good reason why the Kytan has a similar body but loses the stupid track things. The kit just looks stupid.

[Noctus Cornix]

It's not as much of a mistake as the Dreadknight was.

[MoK]

I've used my LoS in every game over 2.5k, which is almost every game I play. I have a Knight for lower point games. I'm going to get a Kytan, but I hate the legs so I was going to look at using Knight legs.

[Vogon]

I like it and run one in my Iron Warriors along with loads of daemon engines. I only bring it out for special events or arranged games where I know there will be other big things to balance it up.

The first time I saw it I knew I had to get one it is definitely an homage to the old epic scale Khorne daemon engines, a cross between the Lord of Battles and the Deathdealer.

http://store.wargamingtrader.com/system/files/imagecache/product_full/P2318%20-%20Epic%20Deathdealer%20Daemon%20Engine%20of%20Khorne%20x2%20%2792%20%20%20%20%2011-09-2.jpg

If I had any issue with it, it would be the juggernaut Head decorations. They look like they should be flamers but have no in game effect. I realise that if they were it would make it a bit more,overpowered but a missed opportunity for me.

[Kierdale]

I'd love to get one and do a Slaaneshi version sometime :D

[Bluebeard]

Personally I love it.

 

It's not just for Khornates, people who play chaos undivided legions can also field it, and I love it as a Black Legion unit.

 

I like it more than the Chaos Knight. It's more "chaotic" and it's a great chaos in-house built thing, rather than an Imperial Knight who was captured and corrupted.

[OnboardG1]

Two words: Crotch Cannon.

[Syrakul]

Aesthetically My first opinion was it was too 'he-man' playset toy-like, and I primarilly played Khorne mono armies in both fantasy/40k. The silliness was exacerbated by all the 'Skulltaking Bloodspiller of Bloody Skulls" GW was pushing on everything.

It has grown on me and i do appreciate the Epic crossover of it and see it more like a NES Contra boss/Heavy Metal Monster. its still not something id consider based on the battles I play and the space reqs.

[The Traitor]

Well, aesthetically the LoS is horrible, I have to agree with that, and it is linked to Khorne armies. However, you can covert it as you like to fix that. And game-wise he's a true beast so nothing negative to say there. You can play it in any legion due to auxiliary super heavy detachments, but it will synergise less with the rest of your army.

[Panzer]

Dunno, I like the Lord of Skulls and would definitely get one if I had a Khorne army. Hell I'm even a bit sad that there is no Slaanesh version of it. :D

[CrimsonReign]

i really like the tractor and tanks on the back of the LoS

the chunky torso coming out of the front just ruins it for me

[Evil Eye]

It's a homage to one of the old Epic units, and it brings back a bit of the goofiness of old-school 40K (which was always kind of the point of 40K anyway) so no, IMO it wasn't a mistake.

[micahwc]

My only issue is that, including forgeworld, khorne has a lot more stuff than the other gods

[Gabocius]

Gaming wise, I think the LOS allows you some very nice tricks.

Unlike the RK, he has the daemon engine keyword, so Daemonforge stratagem allows you to reroll everything in shooting and/or fight phase. I have not my codex in hand but I think that Blasphemous Machines should also a valid option to ignore shooting penalties when moving. Even funnier : he has the heretic astarte keyword, so he can be targetted with prescience and warptime.

What about a fenzied machine, moving 20", firing 12+D6 shots, hitting and (most of time) wounding on 2+ reroll, then charge and so on. That for sure looks very khornate !! You better play first and get him down before he can move or shoot. Actually even at 7+ wound he keeps very menacing. 14" moving under warptime is still rather good, and he gets 2 additionnal attacks ! In fact, even with 1+ wound, his BS keeps at 3+, and most weapons are 48"+ range...not easy to avoid his wrath !

[Sception]

It is a bit goofy. I personally like that about it, but there's no denying that goofiness is a risky move among 40k's and especially CSM's target demo. And the decision to make it a khoene-specific model certainly did place an unnecessary extra limitation on its potential sales.

 

even beyond the goofiness of its core concept, it has some aesthetic problems that even I fing harder to ignore. For instance, the upper torso is a bit too big for the track chasis. A knight sized upper torso would be a better fit, while the actual LoS upper torso would be a better fit on something closer to a baneblade sized tank body. The blood tanks are also probably a bit too large for the tracked chasis, for that matter.

 

Plus the upper torso part especially is a bit too rounded, the detail a bit too flat, for a model of that scale. A more angular body, with more layered armor over gaps showing inner machinery, fleshy bits, or swirling daemonic essence, would have looked better.

 

And it didn't help that it was absolutely awful in game when it was released, and then for years afterward, due to the designers getting cute with its points cost - making it 888 because 8 is khorne's lucky number, when it wasn't powerful enough to justify anything over 600 points. Just by deploying it, you were effectively taking a 300 point handicap, in an army that was already painfully points inefficient.

 

Honestly, GW have been so bad at assigning points values, for so long, and have sabotaged the sales of so many new kits as a result, that I'm not at all surprised some of their rules writers eventually came to hate the very concept of points costs altogether, and that this hatred blinded them to the essential role of points values in making games of this sort at all playable. Eventually that hatred caused them to take leave of their senses when they first made Age of Sigmar without any points system or other balancing mechanic at all, and even after the utter rejection of that model - AoS only really started to take off after GW reversed course on the points thibg with the general's handbook, and even before that the few players who adopted the game were usibg community made points systems. Even now, you still see the stubborn vestiges of the design mentality that bitterly rejects points because they're hard to do in the open and narrative play parts of 40k's design.

 

Anyway, there is a goofy charm to the Lord of Skulls that I appreciate, even with its various aesthetic issues, and now that it finally has a semi-reasonable points cost, I'd love to pick one uo for my Black Legion. Sadly, it's well out of my price range these days, as I'm down to only part time work lately.

Edited September 20, 2017 by malisteen

[Filkarion]

I actually like his silliness... still It was silly (no pun intended...maybe) not to provide an undivided variant (or dual kit option, or something...)

The main reason I was never temped by it, is Khorne^^;

[DeadFingers]

If it wasn't for the Lord of Skulls, this beauty would not exist, so I have no issues with it.

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oDMAVVXcrA8/UxDWpsIGNEI/AAAAAAAAC7E/t896kJYuRBk/s1600/DSC_2725.JPG

[Scammel]

I'm fine with the model itself (as long as you keep that god-awful unhelmeted face away, and I'm iffy with the fact that it has an actual hand), but it represents a very specific vision of Chaos.

 

Sure, a literal fighting totemic Berserker works for the WE very well and with some adjustment just about fits for WB, IW and DG, but it's quite far removed from the more subtle tactics and varied aesthetics of the AL, TS, EC etc. I can easily imagine a Sons sorcerer rolling his eyes at the crude literalism of the thing, and I think something like a tank with a plethora of options (guns, CC arms and other accoutrements) would have been a better fit for the signature super-heavy of the entire faction.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Scammel

[Azekai]

I can appreciate the callbacks to Epic, but a lot of those early designs were kinda silly and aren't improved when blown up to 28mm heroic scale. The only Epic Chaos superheavies that look particularly interesting at 15mm are the Slaaneshi Subjugator and possibly the Lord of Fire for Tzeentch. The Plague Engines are just catapults, and there are a lot of ho-hum tower-looking things, like Altars of Chaos, Cauldrons of Blood, and Plague Towers. I wish GW had done more to 'fix' the Lord of Skulls, kind of like what they did with the Brass Scorpion (still a scorpion shape, but very different from the Epic incarnation).  

[the jeske]

horrible unit in 7th. no niche in 8th, and gets stuck on chaff for a ton of points. Not worth running.

[Sception]

I don't thunk chaff is as big a problem as you make our. It can continue to fire right over the heads of engaging infantry, while the axe has enough attacks to shred through them units at a time.

[Panzer]

but it's quite far removed from the more subtle tactics and varied aesthetics of the AL, TS, EC etc.

EC and subtle? Where have you been the past 10k years? Subtility isn't exactly what EC do anymore. :D

 

Also whether it fits AL or not really depends on the narrative. I can easily see AL summoning one of those to draw all the attention while they are aiming for the actual objective. Pretty much their cultist tactic turned to 11.

[Scammel]

'Subtle' might not be the right word, but the EC aesthetic is certainly far removed from the chunky, track-bound LoS. Some skittering, lithe monstrosity would make for a happier marriage, but you once again contend with the problem of devising a unit that sits comfortably with all the legions.