Sell me on knights?

[noigrim]

I'm torn between two projects: a knight house and an armored company of imperial guard.

 

People in my entourage have told me that knights aren't very good in 8th, the reason they have given are:

 

- too expensive, for the price of one knight you can get two russes or three devastators.

-die easily now that most weapons have multiple damage.

-can't capture objectives now that what counts is how many models you've got there.

-tanks are cheaper, and I only need three more to complete a 1500/75pp army

 

Armoured company has long been a dream of mine, and now russes got good! I have yet to lose one in a game.

 

 

The plan for the knights was to get two styrixs from forgeworld and use masses of conscripts to grab objectives, maybe swap a styrix for a crusader with gatling/battlecannon.

[Tyr13]

I think you should probably wait either way - the IG codex is coming out soon, and it may seriously change how both LR and conscripts work. So, Id probably wait until its a bit clearer whether your plan is going to work (for instance, if conscripts get nerfed, which is likely, your plan of using them to score might not work out)

[Frater Cornelius]

Read this:

 

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Imperial_Knight#Why_Knights_are_Awesome

 

You are welcome ;)

[Toomanyprojects]

Plus, if you’re using them to capture objectives then something is wrong. They need to be used aggressively to make their points back - good thing here is that they are superb when used like this - High strength and high damage means they can now through armour and infantry with ease, with the added benefit of any stratagems that the admech or IK codices will have for them.

[momerathe]

The models look cool. And that's the best reason to play any army.

 

Knights are not an automatic win button; they're perhaps a bit over-pointed, but I actually prefer that to being under-pointed and having everyone hating on them.

 

To address some specific concerns:

 

- too expensive, for the price of one knight you can get two russes or three devastators.

I'm someone amused by this complaint as most IG players I know are complaining how the Leman Russ has been nerfed in 8th.

 

A knight is arguably more survivable than two LRs, and more manoeuvrable. Knights are generally not as shooty, but hey you can't (and shouldn't) have everything.

 

-die easily now that most weapons have multiple damage.

The same applies to any vehicle, though. It takes ~23 BS3+ lascannon shots to destroy a Knight, which is pretty chunky.

 

-can't capture objectives now that what counts is how many models you've got there.

This is true. If you're playing a pure knights army then it's generally either table your opponent or nothing. But as I see you're planing to take some support so it's not such a biggie and besides, the same applies to tanks.

 

-tanks are cheaper, and I only need three more to complete a 1500/75pp army

 

Armoured company has long been a dream of mine, and now russes got good! I have yet to lose one in a game.

Hey, you do you. Tanks are cool too, and if you're already half way there then more power to your elbow

 

 

The plan for the knights was to get two styrixs from forgeworld and use masses of conscripts to grab objectives, maybe swap a styrix for a crusader with gatling/battlecannon.

Sounds solid. I've never played a Styrix but they look good on paper. If you're gonna go IG I'd be inclined to pick up some cheap artillery as well.

[Magos_Adephus]

My two cents on the Styrix is

-it looks like the Knights should fill a heavy weapon platform role in your army, as most of your dudes will be conscripts.

-The Styrix are alright, but you may be better served getting an Errant w/ Thunderstrike your tank/armor/character hunter, and a Crusader as you heavy long range support. Expensive, I know, but that's Knights for you.

[Silentz]

Just got a good hard buff from the AdMech codex, particularly if you have spare command points.

 

These are the stratagems that affect them:

 

"Knight of the Cog" allows your knight to use Canticles of the Omnissiah.  Stars of the CotO lineup are:

Shroudspalm - the knight now has a 2+ save for the turn

Benediction - reroll 1's to hit in shooting phase. Beastly with your Avenger Gatling Cannon.

 

"Rotate Ion Shields" gives you +1 to your invuln save. Super nice. 17% more survivable against those meltas and lascannons. 

 

"Resurgent Machine Spirit" means you can use the top (best) row of stats for a turn, even if your knight has degraded.   So you can be down to 1 wound, almost dead, limping along and suddenly... play a turn as if you're undamaged.  Makes a MASSIVE difference and will mean your opponent needs to pour fire into knights rather than just cripple them and move on. 

 

Plus, you can heal them every turn with AdMech characters... between 1 and d3 wounds depending on character.

 

I think my crusader is going to be pretty fierce now.

[Charlo]

Yeah with a bit of Ad Mech support they are nice.

 

Knights are very cool and a nice way for an Imperial force to get a delete button for the fight phase via the Reaper or Gauntlet.

 

Just refreshed my memory on the Styrix and Magera in 40k, they're very cool now. 4++ constant and some tasty unique weapon options. The big Volkite is especially fun. Getting a big RAD FLAMER in the claw is fun too!

Edited September 22, 2017 by Charlo

[banis]

Yeah with a bit of Ad Mech support they are nice.

 

Knights are very cool and a nice way for an Imperial force to get a delete button for the fight phase via the Reaper or Gauntlet.

 

Just refreshed my memory on the Styrix and Magera in 40k, they're very cool now. 4++ constant and some tasty unique weapon options. The big Volkite is especially fun. Getting a big RAD FLAMER in the claw is fun too!

The styrix looks like a really decent choice. it is one of the cheaper knights and come with a great save. The rad flamer is amazing aswell. if i could i would  exchange both arms for the claw with flamer.:)

[Mechanicus Tech-Support]

I'm personally a fan of Darth Vader the Atrapos knight, but I have not seen how 8th has effected yet...or have I yet to buy one 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Mechanicus Tech-Support

[noigrim]

Ok I see that they need support but aren't that bad, the +1 to invuls could work well with styrixs giving them 3++ turn one.

 

I've come up with this tentative list:

 

75 power

styrix 24

styrix 24

 

Guard batallion 27

Company cmd. 3

platoon cmd 2

comissar 2

comissar 2

comissar 2

50 comscripts 6

50 cons 6

30 cons 3

 

Maybe drop some guard to upgrade into a crusader. As I see it the good HtH weapon against most units are the feet, styrix has better save but crusader more firepower. The rad cleanser is nice, and if the -1 to hit from the claw is a problem you can always kick people around. The volkite is also a good antitank.

 

I can use the 6 CP to give the knights 3++/4++ for three turns or upgrade their BS/WS if they're about to die

Edited September 22, 2017 by noigrim

[Riot Earp]

Atrapos is great in 8. I ran him in a tournament and he survived 2 of 3 games. Killing an imperial knigh, some castellans, nearly oneshoted an spartan ass tank and slashed one contemptor in which he got stuck. Got two times the 6 to overcharge his grav weapon.

[beefeb]

Giant mechanical monsters with massive guns and destructive capacity.   Cool rules and fluff, whats not to like.

 

I play armies on what feels cool, not the best most efficient points or power gaming.  Knights are great fun, and take an absolute pounding in the current version...some math cruncher said on another post it takes 23 lascannon shots to kill one on average and they throw out a crapton of dice so I love them.

[momerathe]

I can use the 6 CP to give the knights 3++/4++ for three turns or upgrade their BS/WS if they're about to die

 

Remember that you can only use a given stratagem once per phase..

[Vel'Cona]

 

I can use the 6 CP to give the knights 3++/4++ for three turns or upgrade their BS/WS if they're about to die

 

Remember that you can only use a given stratagem once per phase..

 

 

Good catch.  I see this one get forgotten all the time in casual play.

[noigrim]

I guess that I'll start with a styrix and see how it goes

[mertbl]

I have used a knight in almost every list above 2k along side my guard army. They have been awesome. Only 1 game did I lose him early on and it was a triple lascannon predator and berserkers. Still think he survived until turn 3.