Assassins

[Roguester]

The assains have, for me atleast, always been some of the coolest looking dudes around and I really like their skill set in 8th. Especially the vindicare..I was wondering if the 90 points a pop are worth it for someone to shoot 72" across the table at high value targets. Anyone tested him out in their GK list?

[Gentlemanloser]

The vindicare is one of the worst / least efficient snipers in the game.

 

I wouldn't use him.

[Holier Than Thou]

I started 8th with him in my list but, although he's not terrible, I found him to be very underwhelming.

[Gentlemanloser]

His single shot was great. When Characters used to not have many wounds.

 

Now, it hardly dents.

[duz_]

Unfortunately I also found him underwheliming.

Yes he's amazing at sniping characters. However as soon as he has no characters to shoot at (ie killed them all or more likely your opponent hides them out of LoS) he's expensive over kill at taking out random infantry models seeing as you can't nominate specific models any more.

[Gaz1858]

I think two at 180 is pretty good. The amount of armies that rely on or are built around their buff is quite high in my meta. 2s to hit 2s to wound with d3/d6 is good.one on his own would struggle though.

[Gentlemanloser]

Average damage for the rifle is 2.3.

 

Average damage inflicted versus a 3+ save character is 1.3

 

It would take almost the entire game for a single Vindicare to kill a normal 3+ save 5W character.

 

That's why they are bad.

 

Just take a squad of marine snipers instead.

[Godeskian]

Can't comment on the vindicare, but I love the culexus. His ability to force a - 2 to your opponents psychic and deny the Witch tests is brutal when stacked on top of grey knights +1 formation rule.

 

It was definitely worth sacrificing a command point to take him as a separate detachment

[Helycon]

And he's hard to kill. Being able to only hit him on 6+ hurts.

You can get a relatively cheap, useful HQ in a Primaris psykers, creating an Imperium detachment. You can stuff assassins in there and gain a CP.

[Corvus Fortis]

Do I get it right that you cannot shoot Culexus with heavy weapons after moving\deep striking at all? 

[Helycon]

Yes, that is correct.

[Gentlemanloser]

I actually had the ' its physically impossible for you to shoot at my guys' trollface happen to my opponent last week.

 

Only characters in los for his shooting. NDK at the front in CC.

 

"I'll shoot your Apothecary"

 

"Sorry you can't. NDK is closer. You must shoot him. But you can't. He's in CC and you don't have pistols".

 

"What? That's a cuss rule."

 

Imagine if it's a Culexus in CC. /evil

 

Yeah, kill him first when you're hitting on 6's. Otherwise you cannot shoot at any characters. Including other Assassins!

 

That proper trolling. ;)

[Helycon]

I'm pretty sure they can shoot at characters in that scenario though. I'll check the RB to see what the exact wording gives us.

 

 

Some models are noted as being a CHARACTER on their datasheet. These heroes, officers, prophets and warlords are powerful individuals that can have a great impact on the course of a battle.The swirling maelstrom of the battlefield can make it difficult to pick out such individuals as targets, however. A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or more, due to their sheer size. 

Seems like you are correct. Odd wording. Seems like that needs a FAQ really, since it makes NO sense. A houseruling could do as well. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Helycon

[the jeske]

If you put 3 culexus in front of 4 eversors. you can't shot at the eversors.

[Gentlemanloser]

If you have 1 in front you have to shoot the single culexes.

 

At 6+.

 

The character rule can be powerful.

 

Edit. Yeah it only stipulates 'visible'. Not something like 'can be chosen as a target'.

 

Which would be better. Stops the locked in CC shenanigans.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[SyNidus]

How would you guys go about adding assassins? Auxiliary detachment slot or Vanguard detachment?

A fluffy idea for my GK is as follows:
 

Vanguard Detachment:

Ordo Malleus in Termie Armour - NDHammer, Combi-melta - 135

Eversor - 70

Eversor - 70

Callidus - 80

- 355

 

What do you guys think?

Perhaps a Culexus instead of the Callidus? And more generally, what do you guys think about adding assassins?

[Helycon]

The Culexus is amazing, especially for the points.

 

I'm not sure about the fluff with assassins and Grey Knights though. Assassins are about killing individuals, humans, xenos. Grey Knights are about stopping daemonic invasions, preferably with greater daemons. It feels...off. still, ganewise, assassins can be very good, the only one that is lacking, is the Vindicare.

[the jeske]

How would you guys go about adding assassins? Auxiliary detachment slot or Vanguard detachment?

 

A fluffy idea for my GK is as follows:

 

Vanguard Detachment:

Ordo Malleus in Termie Armour - NDHammer, Combi-melta - 135

Eversor - 70

Eversor - 70

Callidus - 80

- 355

 

What do you guys think?

 

Perhaps a Culexus instead of the Callidus? And more generally, what do you guys think about adding assassins?

always culexus, you take assasins you take them. I would even take two and just one evresor.

[Plasmablasts]

The Culexus is amazing, especially for the points.

 

I'm not sure about the fluff with assassins and Grey Knights though. Assassins are about killing individuals, humans, xenos. Grey Knights are about stopping daemonic invasions, preferably with greater daemons. It feels...off. still, ganewise, assassins can be very good, the only one that is lacking, is the Vindicare.

There's no fluff problem taking both GK and Assassins: they are both scarce, high-value Imperial assets, with complementary skill-sets. So, if a situation is critical enough to warrant deploying GKs and also requires the capabilities of an Officio Assassinorum agent, that deployment will almost certainly be sanctioned by the High Lords. An example might be a rogue psyker causing or potentially causing a daemonic incursion: a Culexus agent could be sent to eliminate the psyker, while the GK go to deal with the daemons.

 

This loose linkage of GK and Assassins goes back at least to Codex: Daemonhunters, which included both.

[Godeskian]

I didn't realise you could take the assassin as part of a Vanguard detachment since I thought they didn't have an hq unit. I also don't own imperium index 2, so which force do they belong to?

 

Or rather, does the officio assasinorium have its own hq?

[Gentlemanloser]

No the 4 are thier own faction.

 

As they have no battle forged bonus yet you just use the imperial keyword to stick any other imperial hq into a vanguard to unlock them.

 

Like an inquisitor, primaris psyker or tempestus prime.

[duz_]

Or you could take the auxiliary detachment, but at -1 CP thats rough on GK's who struggle to find them in the first place!

[Helycon]

Or you could take the auxiliary detachment, but at -1 CP thats rough on GK's who struggle to find them in the first place!

Quite a lot of people feel that's worth it. A Culexus really is that good if your opponent has psykers and not bad at all when they don't They're incredibly difficult to kill.

[Godeskian]

 

 

Or you could take the auxiliary detachment, but at -1 CP thats rough on GK's who struggle to find them in the first place!

Quite a lot of people feel that's worth it. A Culexus really is that good if your opponent has psykers and not bad at all when they don't They're incredibly difficult to kill.

I'm one of those people. I won't field a 1500 or larger army without the culexus. He's just too good at what he does

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I've fought Assassins and they're honestly kinda underwhelming if you're prepared for them. 

 

Vindicare is great at sniping characters, but given that most games in 8th are over by Turn 3 (sometimes earlier), that's only 3 shots to have an impact (assuming he isn't killed off earlier). As GML mentioned, a Scout Sniper squad is better and offers more benefits. 

 

Eversor is a nightmare to infantry, but if you screen anything you don't want him hitting with vehicles, he's not as scary. Also he's pretty much pure melee, which means if you gun him down at range or blunt his Turn 1 charge, he doesn't achieve much. 

 

Culexus does go down to your guns, you just need to spam into him. Storm bolter and psilencer is actually really efficient at this. He probably will mulch a unit or two against GK, but you can bring him down with enough shots. He only gets cancerous when spammed (which is why locally we restrict Assassins to 0-1 of each).

 

Callidus I have yet to face.

 

As far as allying, I feel like GK are better off spending points on units that benefit from Brotherhood bonus and our various synergies. We're already quite point starved, and the Assassins either don't do enough or are actively harmful to us (Culexus has to stay away from your units to not interfere, which makes him vulnerable to being focus down). 

 

As a hard counter in enemy armies, I'm only really concerned seeing a Culexus. The others don't worry me.