Help with legion choice please

[Van_Wynter]

Long time 40k fan but first time starting a table top army! I decided on chaos marines but can't pick a legion, I like too many options lol

 

Will be mainly a modeling project but also playing casually (power levels) with two friends running space marines (black templars + as mech and a dark angels player)

 

I'd like a melee focused force plus psychers which is where I'm struggling with legion choice my thinking so far is,

 

Black legion: pretty open to conversions with brought together warbands but not great traits etc? Is Abaddon worth it?

 

Night lords: can't find much 3rd party stuff for a cool conversion and not sure the leadership rebuffs effectiveness Vs marines

 

Alpha legion: same as night lords hard to convert really

 

Emperor's children: I like them but no access to berserkers, are chosen/possessed good alternatives?

 

World eaters: no access to psychers

 

Red corsairs: dunno much about them game wise tbh, are they renegades? Is Huron any good?

 

Fallen: fallen are really interesting but I'm bit confused with what you can actually do with them lacking <legion> key words

 

Any help and input would be much appreciated

Edited September 24, 2017 by Van_Wynter

[Castigator]

If it's more of a modelling project I would look to one of the undivided Legions; mainly because it allows you to add whatever you like the look of.

The Black Legion look great painted up and their background is famous for making use of all that Chaos has to offer.....they look very nice on the table as well 

 

If you're looking for close combat and psychic powers, I would look to Alpha Legion. Their ability to infiltrate mixed with hard to hit support units make them one of the most powerful and versatile Legions. Infiltrating Berzerkers are an excellent choice and can put the pressure on right from the start. There's some nice Forge World models and transfers that compliment their striking colour scheme which is relatively easy to paint. For conversions I would look to anything that has scales on it for conversion parts such as fantasy Elves.

 

Without a doubt, the Night Lords are the coolest of the Legions, but their rules are nothing special. They have one of the most interesting backgrounds and they look lush on the tabletop.

 

Emperor's Children have a lot to offer but they don't excel at close combat despite their Legion trait being geared towards combat. The real exception to this is Slaanesh Terminators. They throw out a brutal amount of firepower, thanks to the Slaanesh Stratagem (which other Legions can make use of) and they're a decent combat unit as well. Mainly though we're all about the Noise, ranged firepower is our thing with Noise Marines and Sonic Helbrutes being excellent at bringing the pain......Our Havocs aren't bad either.

 

Really though, I'd recommend whatever you like the look of visually. We're in a good place right now and all of the Legions can be made to work with a bit of thought. Fortunately, we've always had the best looking armies so the world universe is your oyster   

[Van_Wynter]

Thanks for the reply!

 

I do like the appeal of the alpha legion, it's just the conversion aspect I'm struggling with to be a bit more unique. I was starting with puppetswar traitor shoulder pads as a start (world eaters pair are amazing) but there's no snake or hydra only a kraken? More marvels hydra than alpha legion but they do have a large array of iconography so maybe.

 

Definite food for thought!

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Renegades!  Access to everything.  

 

If it has to be a legion... Black Legion.  You can go in any direction using these two.  

 

Is Abaddon worth it?  In power level games I couldnt say.  The model truly does suck.  He looks like a guardsman with bad complexion. :(

 

If you choose Black Legion then he is an auto include for gameplay and fluff reasons.

[Van_Wynter]

Haha I definitely agree about the Abaddon model, how old is that thing?

 

If I go black legion would for sure convert my own Abaddon lol

[Khannis]

The Night Lords supposedly will feature heavily on the next HH/30k book, and even if you're not interested in playing it, I'm sure excellent conversion opportunities will arise!

 

As for their rules, I assure you that with the right strategy (Despair Raptors/Talons, Butcher Cannons) and Warlord Trait their terror tactics can be very strong against most armies, including marines.

[the jeske]

AL has rules superior to everything other chaos legions can have. There is not "under right circumstance" or "when you play it right", makes ok chaos units much better, makes meh chaos units semi viable. And with the way the rules are writen you have access to everything you could want out of chaos lists, with no limitiations[unlike in the past, when AL was ok, but had no access to cult or marked units].

[Van_Wynter]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I can see alpha legion being the best game wise now but think I'm leaning more towards black legion for the modeling despite curze and the twins being some of my favourite primarchs.

 

Any advice on fallen, world eaters or red corsairs?

[sanityimpaired]

There's no requirement that the paint job match the legion rules you're using.  Paint your models whatever colour scheme you like, and then use whatever legion rules you feel like on a given day.

GW has made a point of dividing the hobby and rules so that they don't interfere with one another.

[Van_Wynter]

Thanks for all the help, decided to make a fallen angels themed army using either alpha legion rules or black legion with a "counts as Abaddon" maybe a Daemon leading a bunch of fallen, "the black lion" or something lol figure it out later!

[Lord Marshal]

I'd go with Black Legion honestly. They're the most diverse force, so even if you decide you want to swap to say... a vehicle heavy or a ranged forced one day, you're already half there there. Plus an updated Abbadon is a less a question of 'if' so much as 'when'. I'm sure there's more than a few third party resin kits of him until then anyhow.

[Sception]

Alpha Legion are mechanically the best by a pretty large margin, between their trait being the best for ranged support and their stratagem completely redefining how several of our units function, taking a lot of our melee infantry from just bad to highly dangerous.  Narratively they're also very interesting, and their warlord trait in particular can be a lot of fun.

 

The other non-cult options - Black Legion, Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and Renegades - are all about on the same level and run a similar range of builds.  There's 'better' and 'worse' mechanics among them, but not by enough that you should really feel put out by them or compelled to take them into account when building your army.  If you want to play an undivided CSM army, but don't want to play Alpha Legion, then you might as well make that decision based on fluff, aesthetics, and overall personality.

 

The two cult legions in the book are pretty clearly temporary rules bridging the gap between now and whenever GW gets around to releasing Death Guard / Thousand Sons style dedicated cult books & model lines.  As such, I would recommend shying away from starting either of those armies at this time, as their rules and model lines are at extreme risk of being completely replaced within the next year or two.  If you absolutely know World Eaters or Emperor's Children is your thing, then so be it, but if you're asking advice on what legion to pick, then my advice on those two would be 'don't', even though their current mechanics aren't awful or anything.  Between the two, children are certainly better off.  troop noise marines is nice and slaanesh is one of the better marks right now for psychics and stratagems in the main CSM book.  World Eaters kind of struggle, as sorcerers are our best HQs right now, the khorne fight twice stratagem is painfully overpriced, and while 'zerks are ok, what they really need to shine is better delivery options, not a shift to troops slots.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

  World Eaters kind of struggle, as sorcerers are our best HQs right now, the khorne fight twice stratagem is painfully overpriced, and while 'zerks are ok, what they really need to shine is better delivery options, not a shift to troops slots.

 

Spartan is the only delivery option the World Eaters need ;) 

 

 

[Sception]

Eh.  The chaos version is worse than the imperial, and even if it wasn't spartans are very pricey, not all that hard to put down, deliver turn two at best, cost an arm and a leg in real people munny, etc.  Not terrible or anything, but I can't say as I'm a particular fan.

[CptMetal]

I'd build a Dread claw based world eaters army!

Fight them with style and drown your enemies in blood!

 

But My Heart is iron and belongs to the iron Legion. But because I hate the mini Marines now I'm going to build a Hell forge army lead by true scale warp smiths.

 

I'm telling you this because you need to use the approach not what has the best rules but what would you like to see in a movie. What gets your blood to boil with excitement?

[40kChrista]

I do like the Black Legion trait... on Cultists.  I like the Renegade trait on anything close combat related.  So for me an army I'm considering is a Black Legion detachment for Slaanesh Cultists for Tide of Traitors and Endless Cacophony coupled with a Renegade detachment for Berserkers and Possessed getting Diabolic Strength from as many Sorcerers as I can stuff in.  This type of structure seems to fill out the criteria you outlined in the OP.

 

Since I've also started most of my models as BL I can pretty much just bring whatever I want.  Modeling opportunity and collection flexibility is a plus for me.

 

Abaddon is worth it for the CP bonus but the current, official, model is so tiny.  However it's easy enough to convert a more proper sized Abby from the plastic terminator lord kit.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Eh.  The chaos version is worse than the imperial, and even if it wasn't spartans are very pricey, not all that hard to put down, deliver turn two at best, cost an arm and a leg in real people munny, etc.  Not terrible or anything, but I can't say as I'm a particular fan.

The Spartan is excellent even if it is "worse than the imperial version." For about 121 pts more than a Land Raider you get: 250% increase in transport capacity, double the Lascannon Fire Power, an 80% increase in wounds (increased survivability), and the ability for the vehicle to heal itself in melee. The issue is you're trying to utilize a direct comparison with out taking into account how well this compliments the Army it will be utilized in. The Spartan absolutely will make a difference for a World Eater force because of what it provides to the World Eaters. 

 

What other "delivery option" is better than the Spartan for World Eaters considering that is what was in question? 

[Lord_Starscream]

I'd not touch Black Legion, their icky, and have a leader who can't even beat a bunch of humans in hand to hand :P

 

But. I'd honestly go Renegades (IE: The Red Corsairs or some equal) If you're gonna do it.

 

Access to everything, and can charge off the march? That's pretty intense for hand to hand.

[1000 Sons]

Huron and his Muppet are awesome, solid psyker and good combat, and the traitor is great. Since they are renegades you can make every unit have a different look like a rag tag force.

 

I would skip the spartan, waste of a super heavy slot, the kharybdis is solid shooting, awesome in cc itself.

[Panzer]

I'd not touch Black Legion, their icky, and have a leader who can't even beat a bunch of humans in hand to hand

 

But. I'd honestly go Renegades (IE: The Red Corsairs or some equal) If you're gonna do it.

 

Access to everything, and can charge off the march? That's pretty intense for hand to hand.

Still only ~ 3.5 more inch on the turn you decide to charge. Unless of course the unit has a special rule like Bikes where it would be an additional 6" the turn you charge. It's a decent rule but "pretty intense"? Nah not really. ^^

[norngahl]

But makes a great difference at deepstriking. Making 9" to 6" and get a pretty solid Chance to get into CC is way better than having +1 LD.

 

Really, I like BL the most, but their trait is rather crappy. You only field them for fluff or because you want Abby.

Edited September 28, 2017 by norngahl

[Panzer]

But makes a great difference at deepstriking. Making 9" to 6" and get a pretty solid Chance to get into CC is way better than having +1 LD.

 

Really, I like BL the most, but their trait is rather crappy. You only field them for fluff or because you want Abby.

It does not. You can't advance after deep striking. It's better than the BL one for sure but it really isn't that great. Better spend 1CP to infiltrate a unit of Berzerker or Terminator as Alpha Legion if you want an undivided army that's good in melee. ^^