Arguments against Guilliman's new order

[Plaguecaster]

People seem to forget Guilliman was one of the Emperors loyal sons and the Imperium is a fanatical loyal empire dedicated to the worship of the God Emperor, Guilliman practically is a living saint as much as people hate the dude you can't really denounce him as a traitor and herectic for his questionable ways without starting a big who-ha causing drama that could possibly start another civil war between those who worship Guilliman and those who don't. Maybe if another Primarch shows up but even then I doubt any would be dumb enough (apart from Russ or maybe even the Lion ) to start causing internal conflict when Chaos is at the front door

[Lucerne]

People seem to forget Guilliman was one of the Emperors loyal sons and the Imperium is a fanatical loyal empire dedicated to the worship of the God Emperor, Guilliman practically is a living saint as much as people hate the dude you can't really denounce him as a traitor and herectic for his questionable ways without starting a big who-ha causing drama that could possibly start another civil war between those who worship Guilliman and those who don't. Maybe if another Primarch shows up but even then I doubt any would be dumb enough (apart from Russ or maybe even the Lion ) to start causing internal conflict when Chaos is at the front door

Guilliman's cult of personality and hiding his sins- including attempted murder of Dorn- is why his coup's gotten as far as it has.

 

But the cult's built on tradition and resistant to change- they worship Guilliman the idol, not the man himself, and if he pushes them too far, there'll be the absurdity of them finding reasons to declare the man a heretic for violating his own "teachings".

[Vesper]

 

 

 

I don't think the technicality of it matters. I don't think any ultramarine / tetrarch could turn Nostramo into a shining beacon (eh !) of success. The 500 worlds are successful because they were handpicked and because they are interdependants. That's fine, but that's the easy route. You can't apply it to the whole Imperium, because it would be the equivalent of a social genocide.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Guilliman is a tyrant. The Emperor was one, the High Lords are no different. That's the nature of the setting, people doing horrible things because they think it's necessary. But I don't think Guilliman is mad enough to project his 500 worlds little priviledged paradise to the entire Imperium since I think he is smart enough to know that only few people can be priviledged.

 

Had he devised the codex astartes equivalent of social organisation and planetary ruling in the Imperium, it may have been different. But no such thing can really work, for Mankind is wild and diverse.

 

At least it is my opinion. Even if it's amazing.

 

He is devising a codex for good governance though. Something that is broad enough to be applied throughout the galaxy. Not sure about its name though.

 

As for the 500, that's kind of what he's trying to do in Dark Imperium. Make Ultramar the 'model' the rest of the Imperium should follow. He even states that he plans to expand his domain far past its original borders in terms of influence and actual size.

 

Thank you for those new infos, you've changed my mind. Now I don't think he is smart enough to grasp the reality of the Imperium and Mankind.

 

 

Yes I agree. though I would argue that it is more of him being naive than not intelligent enough. As in, he cannot understand why others do not want to put human civilization above all else. He sees the vision of an ever expanding and developing civilization that ensures human dominance and prosperity throughout the galaxy as the only higher goal and consider all other arguments to be petty and personal.

 

The Horus Heresy books that covered the Shadow Crusade reveal this point of view. He simply cannot even begin to grasp why someone like Lorgar or Angron would try and damage this vision for whatever grievance they had. 

 

Its quite a contrast to the more 'personal' primarchs like Lorgar, Perturabo and Fulgrim I've read about.

 

I've been super unfair for the sake of the good word, and I have to fix that. He is a post-human monster who highjacked Mankind's fate, just like his "father". It isn't fair to blame him for his inaptitude to grasp what Mankind is. And I love it. Mankind's tendancy for Chaos and inhuman monsters fighting against it. Amazing, really.

 

Mankind isn't a homogenic herd with set needs and common answers to said needs. But it boils down to the imperialistic nature of the Imperium. I don't think there is "human civilisation" but rather human civilisations. No two worlds in the Imperium have the same culture, traditions. Even with the efforts of an empire to spread the Imperial Cult, the use of Gothic as a language.

 

I could use some real life examples, but those aren't always tolerated by the moderators, but my point is we're such a singular kind. And only the kaleidoscopic diversity of Chaos can trully fit Mankind. It's the perfect fit, in fact, and I think that's what the Emperor saw in Mankind, first and foremost.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Vesper

[Volt]

 

Other than that quibble I like Guilliman coming back, as frankly when you have a ridiculously overqualified superhuman to act as a leader, no human should even be allowed to assume any leadership position over him because of the blatant superiority for the job. Mortals simply have no business in governing the Imperium unless they happen to come from the Adeptus Mechanicus (in which case they aren't mortal anymore).

Overqualified? Guilliman comes from a caste of petty, childish over-grown man-children who's biggest achievement was literally tearing the galaxy in half in an interstellar example of a family argument.

 

There's no WAY I'd let a Primarch anywhere near a position of power if it were up to me. All they've done in the past is show us how they are completely self-serving and prepared to sacrifice the entire galaxy to achieve their personal goals.

 

No thank you.

 

Those petty man children are more competent than the humans currently in charge of the Imperium, who have survived purely by a mixture of authorial fiat and sheer luck. The Primarchs are written like incompetent whining children not fit to lead any military venture, but the bog standard humans manage somehow to be worse. Besides this is more an issue with the writers than the setting itself. Logically we can conclude that if there is an applicant best fit for the job in every single demand, they and only they should be allowed to fill that office due to being superior. And truth be told the humans should have never been allowed to run the Imperium in the first place. The second the Emperor bit the dust the Astartes and Adeptus Mechanicus should have quietly slit the High Lords' throats and dumped them behind the palace while assuming direct control. With the Inquisition watching over them of course.

[DogWelder]

 

 

 

 

I don't think the technicality of it matters. I don't think any ultramarine / tetrarch could turn Nostramo into a shining beacon (eh !) of success. The 500 worlds are successful because they were handpicked and because they are interdependants. That's fine, but that's the easy route. You can't apply it to the whole Imperium, because it would be the equivalent of a social genocide.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Guilliman is a tyrant. The Emperor was one, the High Lords are no different. That's the nature of the setting, people doing horrible things because they think it's necessary. But I don't think Guilliman is mad enough to project his 500 worlds little priviledged paradise to the entire Imperium since I think he is smart enough to know that only few people can be priviledged.

 

Had he devised the codex astartes equivalent of social organisation and planetary ruling in the Imperium, it may have been different. But no such thing can really work, for Mankind is wild and diverse.

 

At least it is my opinion. Even if it's amazing.

 

He is devising a codex for good governance though. Something that is broad enough to be applied throughout the galaxy. Not sure about its name though.

 

As for the 500, that's kind of what he's trying to do in Dark Imperium. Make Ultramar the 'model' the rest of the Imperium should follow. He even states that he plans to expand his domain far past its original borders in terms of influence and actual size.

 

Thank you for those new infos, you've changed my mind. Now I don't think he is smart enough to grasp the reality of the Imperium and Mankind.

 

 

Yes I agree. though I would argue that it is more of him being naive than not intelligent enough. As in, he cannot understand why others do not want to put human civilization above all else. He sees the vision of an ever expanding and developing civilization that ensures human dominance and prosperity throughout the galaxy as the only higher goal and consider all other arguments to be petty and personal.

 

The Horus Heresy books that covered the Shadow Crusade reveal this point of view. He simply cannot even begin to grasp why someone like Lorgar or Angron would try and damage this vision for whatever grievance they had. 

 

Its quite a contrast to the more 'personal' primarchs like Lorgar, Perturabo and Fulgrim I've read about.

 

I've been super unfair for the sake of the good word, and I have to fix that. He is a post-human monster who highjacked Mankind's fate, just like his "father". It isn't fair to blame him for his inaptitude to grasp what Mankind is. And I love it. Mankind's tendancy for Chaos and inhuman monsters fighting against it. Amazing, really.

 

Mankind isn't a homogenic herd with set needs and common answers to said needs. But it boils down to the imperialistic nature of the Imperium. I don't think there is "human civilisation" but rather human civilisations. No two worlds in the Imperium have the same culture, traditions. Even with the efforts of an empire to spread the Imperial Cult, the use of Gothic as a language.

 

I could use some real life examples, but those aren't always tolerated by the moderators, but my point is we're such a singular kind. And only the kaleidoscopic diversity of Chaos can trully fit Mankind. It's the perfect fit, in fact, and I think that's what the Emperor saw in Mankind, first and foremost.

 

 

The thing is we are not given any evidence of a proper human civilization existing within the realm of chaos that isn't filled with the worst kinds of misery imaginable. Going by the Word Bearer novels, I'd say life on the worst Imperial worlds are better than living in the absolute horror that is described on chaos worlds.

 

Not to say that this would not be an interesting plot point if introduced into the setting, showing as a possibly appealing alternate vision where chaos empowers humanity to stand against the dangers of the galaxy and reign supreme over all alien life. So far I haven't seen anything like it though.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Hmmmm.  Would Traitor General count?  It's not a purely Chaotic civilization, but for all the terror of living under a magic-spawning tyrannical government, the society was fairly ordered.

[Vesper]

But should Mankind dominate everything ? The Imperium, by its gross size is inhuman. It's like that Gerry Rafferty song, there are a lot of people but no actual soul. The Epic of the Great Crusade isn't a human one, it's all about the Emperor and his sons conquering the galaxy. I agree with Volt, no human can really rule the Imperium, because the Imperium isn't a human construct, at a human scale.

 

On the Chaos influenced civilisations being brutal / awful, yes, many are, but they revolve around very human ethos. The primacy of strenght, the indulgence of desires, the desire for glory... All that, even if it's awful, makes sense. It is meaningful, because it's human. The Imperium being inhuman (mostly, since whorship of the Emperor, something he never wanted, is actually pretty human) acts as a counterbalance to Chaos civilisations where it's all about Mankind turned to eleven.

 

On surviving the dangers of the galaxy, I think both sides could be argued (with Nurgle protecting from the Tyranids and such), but I don't really think it matters in the grand scheme of things. Maybe Mankind isn't supposed to be eternal.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Vesper

[Volt]

But should Mankind dominate everything ? The Imperium, by its gross size is inhuman. It's like that Gerry Rafferty song, there are a lot of people but no actual soul. The Epic of the Great Crusade isn't a human one, it's all about the Emperor and his sons conquering the galaxy. I agree with Volt, no human can really rule the Imperium, because the Imperium isn't a human construct, at a human scale.

 

On the Chaos influenced civilisations being brutal / awful, yes, many are, but they revolve around very human ethos. The primacy of strenght, the indulgence of desires, the desire for glory... All that, even if it's awful, makes sense. It is meaningful, because it's human. The Imperium being inhuman (mostly, since whorship of the Emperor, something he never wanted, is actually pretty human) acts as a counterbalance to Chaos civilisations where it's all about Mankind turned to eleven.

 

On surviving the dangers of the galaxy, I think both sides could be argued (with Nurgle protecting from the Tyranids and such), but I don't really think it matters in the grand scheme of things. Maybe Mankind isn't supposed to be eternal.

Chaos is pretty human because its method of governing and promotions is similar to a tribe of steppe warriors. The biggest baddest dude on the block amasses the power, and around him he surrounds himself with the most competent advisers to keep him in power so he can keep the bribes flowing. The second any part of the system falls apart of course the whole thing falls apart and things burn, which is part of the reason why nothing Chaos builds is permanent. A dozen civilizations may be raised up in the Warp, but a dozen more will collapse in the same moment. 

 

The Imperium on the other hand is a system like a typical government. It is a feudal system, but incredibly bloated, complex, and gigantic in scope. The sheer scale of time and the amount of things going on demands brainpower mostly unseen in the typical human, with the ability to look a century or five centuries into the future to envision how current policy may affect the future. That would in reality disqualify virtually all historical politicians save figures like Stalin. Only the most inhuman humans can lead the Imperium due to the sheer amount of space-time it encompasses. It probably will still exist in the galaxy thousands of years into the future and still possess a significant chunk of territory with an incomprehensibly large popualtion.

 

The High Lords by and large are an utter failure because they are all too human. They have personal ambitions which they fight over like a murder of crows, squawking incessantly as they are oblivion to the rotting nature of the food. Ideally the Imperium would be ruled by something completely inhuman; possessing no personal ambitions, no intense emotions, no lusts or desires, and is wholly dedicated to the safeguarding of the human genome.

 

Guilliman may not be that perfect ruler, but he's sure a hell of a lot better than the men who came before/after him.

[Cryptix]

But should Mankind dominate everything ? 

According to the holy writ of the Emperor of Mankind and the sacred demands of the High Lords of Terra there is no other option.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

Guilliman may not be that perfect ruler, but he's sure a hell of a lot better than the men who came before/after him.

 

 

I beg to differ.  The Primarchs suffer from all of the same failings as regular humans, which is why we ended up with the various inter-Legionary squabbles -- not to mention the Heresy! -- in the first place.  They only way the Imperium is going to have good rulership is if the Big E climbs off the throne, and that's not likely going to happen any time soon.

[Vesper]

 

But should Mankind dominate everything ? 

According to the holy writ of the Emperor of Mankind and the sacred demands of the High Lords of Terra there is no other option.

 

 

They sure would not like me.

 

In the end, like all great things, it's kinda like in Fight Club.

 

I'm a man, and I know there is in us this weird place where we aspire to hunt deers with spears, forge brotherly bonds with other men around a warrior culture. Oppose, compete with others on a battlefield, get the glory we naturally aspire to. It's primal, barbaric, yet super meaningful, it is the very roots of our civilisations. Even if we wear ties and work meaningless jobs, it's who we trully are. And in 40k, Chaos calls to this part of us, and encourages Mankind into going this way, accepting what we really are, because the gods feed on it.

[DogWelder]

 

 

But should Mankind dominate everything ? 

According to the holy writ of the Emperor of Mankind and the sacred demands of the High Lords of Terra there is no other option.

 

 

They sure would not like me.

 

In the end, like all great things, it's kinda like in Fight Club.

 

I'm a man, and I know there is in us this weird place where we aspire to hunt deers with spears, forge brotherly bonds with other men around a warrior culture. Oppose, compete with others on a battlefield, get the glory we naturally aspire to. It's primal, barbaric, yet super meaningful, it is the very roots of our civilisations. Even if we wear ties and work meaningless jobs, it's who we trully are. And in 40k, Chaos calls to this part of us, and encourages Mankind into going this way, accepting what we really are, because the gods feed on it.

 

 

Wasn't Fight Club a parody of that whole sentiment? Like the takeaway was supposed to be that productive individuals leading healthy lives were throwing it away to commit destructive acts that, while satisfying in the short term, not only hurt them over time but also greatly damaged those around them?

 

In any case, maybe I can't fully appreciate the concept you mentioned since I'm a girl but I do feel that the 'primal' and competitive side of humanity exists in a civilized society as well. That energy is simply channeled into more productive outlets that benefit everyone. Such as engineers and scientists racing with each other to make new discoveries. Or security forces/militaries going above and beyond the call of duty to defend their civilizations etc. etc.

 

I believe Chaos would simply disrupt such an order so that such energy would be unregulated, uncontrolled and ultimately be destructive. Human desires are like a power source in my opinion. Restrained and channeled in the right direction, it fuels the engine of civilization. But left to roam free it consumes everything in its path until humanity consumes itself. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by DogWelder

[Kinstryfe]

It's interesting to see the varied opinions on this topic.

 

Like most that concern the Imperium as a whole, I think the scale is what trips up topics like this. For every world like Macragge, or Ullanorgeddon, or Cadia who have an immense effect on a regional or galactic scale, there are doubtless hundreds of thousands who have relatively minimal impact. They probably grow food, or make munitions, or raise regiments for the Astra Militarum. They're important in a sense that they fullfil a purpose, but they don't really have an effect on the giant meta plots. We're never going to get a story praising Bill, the heroic strip miner who mined the iron which was melted into alloy and used to make a bolt casing which housed the bolt which blew up the chaos warlord attacking Terra, right? It's a setting of a million worlds, of which there are ultimately 12 people in charge. If every planet in the Imperium sent a yearly report, which was reviewed and responded to by a single High Lord, approxomately 90 seconds yearly would be allotted to this process given they worked a leisurely 40 hour workweek. If you factor in the inevitable slow pace the Administrarum moves at, I'd wager that while things like the Navy, Militarum, and other Central government structures are fairly well regulated, the majority of actual planets are pretty much the wild West. In fact, as long as most worlds turn in their tithes on time, don't fall to chaos, try to succeed, or get invaded by xenos, I'm not sure that anyone outside of that's planetary system necessarily even cares what happens, because new restrictions on military capacity, new rogue trader charters, tithes for Forgeworlds, and a million other decisions will never affect them. Likewise if they're invaded, nobody will probably know until after three sternly worded letters about how they were late with their tithe have gone thru.

 

In other words, for the vast majority of the Imperium, it doesn't matter who is in charge, because for the vast majority it doesn't matter one bit. You'll still live and die praising an Emperor you'll never see and churning out case after case of self-sealing stem bolts until the day you die, and likely never be affected by a single proclamation from Holy Terra.

[Adeptus]

My point re Hitler and Mussolini was not to do with the technicalities of their regimes, but to identify the fact that putting one person in power with no checks or balances, giving them ABSOLUTE power, no matter how qualified or popular they may be, almost always ends in disaster. Be it assassination, usurpation, regicide, a coup of some kind, rebellion or... heresy. No man is infallible, and the Primarchs have amply demonstrated how fallible they are, how out of touch with humanity they are, how prone to hubris and being over-prideful they are. I'd never advocate for putting one in charge of a hamburger stall, let alone a galaxy spanning empire. Especially with no checks or balances at all. It's a recipe for disaster!

 

What have the twelve high lords done? I'll tell you what they haven't done. They haven't plunged the galaxy into a ten thousand year civil war, like the Primarchs did.

 

In any case, maybe I can't fully appreciate the concept you mentioned since I'm a girl but I do feel that the 'primal' and competitive side of humanity exists in a civilized society as well. That energy is simply channeled into more productive outlets that benefit everyone. Such as engineers and scientists racing with each other to make new discoveries. Or security forces/militaries going above and beyond the call of duty to defend their civilizations etc. etc.

That's one side of the coin. The other is drunken bar fights, soccer hoolignism, racism, riots, war crimes, corruption and greed, etc etc.

 

EDIT: A good example of why (in universe) I'd be opposed to Guilliman's rule is the Roman Empire. After Caesar took power and effectively ended the Republic, the Empire continued to struggle on, but it was riven with assassination, coup after coup, rebellions, and for every Augustus or Trajan there was a Caligula or Nero (although really, Nero just suffers from bad publicity. He never 'fiddled' while the city burned.)

Edited September 27, 2017 by Adeptus

[Volt]

My point re Hitler and Mussolini was not to do with the technicalities of their regimes, but to identify the fact that putting one person in power with no checks or balances, giving them ABSOLUTE power, no matter how qualified or popular they may be, almost always ends in disaster. Be it assassination, usurpation, regicide, a coup of some kind, rebellion or... heresy. No man is infallible, and the Primarchs have amply demonstrated how fallible they are, how out of touch with humanity they are, how prone to hubris and being over-prideful they are. I'd never advocate for putting one in charge of a hamburger stall, let alone a galaxy spanning empire. Especially with no checks or balances at all. It's a recipe for disaster!

 

What have the twelve high lords done? I'll tell you what they haven't done. They haven't plunged the galaxy into a ten thousand year civil war, like the Primarchs did.

 

In any case, maybe I can't fully appreciate the concept you mentioned since I'm a girl but I do feel that the 'primal' and competitive side of humanity exists in a civilized society as well. That energy is simply channeled into more productive outlets that benefit everyone. Such as engineers and scientists racing with each other to make new discoveries. Or security forces/militaries going above and beyond the call of duty to defend their civilizations etc. etc.

That's one side of the coin. The other is drunken bar fights, soccer hoolignism, racism, riots, war crimes, corruption and greed, etc etc.

 

EDIT: A good example of why (in universe) I'd be opposed to Guilliman's rule is the Roman Empire. After Caesar took power and effectively ended the Republic, the Empire continued to struggle on, but it was riven with assassination, coup after coup, rebellions, and for every Augustus or Trajan there was a Caligula or Nero (although really, Nero just suffers from bad publicity. He never 'fiddled' while the city burned.)

 

Except the Roman Empire was an objectively superior civilization to live in as a citizen of lower to middle class compared to the Roman Republic, especially to its end when it became bloated and corrupt. Meanwhile the Empire not only lasted longer, didn't suffer from as gross abuse of property laws, and assassination of the Emperor was often legal means of getting rid of somebody that was really, really bad. Hell if you were a Constantinoplian you could just toss the Emperor out.

[Ciler]

But I suppose suddently tech heresy and xenos witchcraft are alright to the Imperium.

The imperium at large doesn't know about it though. You're confusing what we know and what is perceived in-universe by only a handfull of characters most of which have interest in allying Guilliman.

[Frater Cornelius]

So i have skimmed through this thread and have yet to find this argument: he is not the Emperor. Only a primarch. A holy creation but one that has proven corruptible in the past something the Emperor has never proven to be.

You are implying that the Emperor is worth a damn. The greatness of a person is not determined by power, but by his qualities as a human being. In that regard, I would argue that Guilliman is a superior leader. Why? Because he cares. The Emperor never did and only acted towards his own goals. And yes, I regard even Primarchs as humans.

 

The greatest disadvantage I see is that Guillimans return can fracture the Imperium. One the one side we have those sensible enough to support Guilliman, on the other we have selfish idiots who value own gains above the one thing that the Imperium needs right now: unity.

 

The High Lord quote from above shows why they are not fit to rule. They arrogant and blind. They also regard Astartes as tools to be used, not people who fight for their survival. They have no respect for anything other than themselves and will gladly backstab their neighbour to gain more power.

 

Truth be told, I do not think the Imperium needs Terra anymore, other than from a ideological and sentimental standpoint. Remove the High Lords and kick the Emperor. Humanity deserves better.

[Ciler]

The imperium needs Terra because otherwise each planet has to fend for itself. And that means an agri-world has no defence and a military-world has no food.

 

I find it ironic that you could in the same message claim that the imperium needs unity, and that it doesn't need the lynchpin of said unity.

[Bryan Blaire]

Reasonably conventionally, however, most attempts to construct the canon accept the tenet that if something is said to be true it remains true without need for further support right up until it's said to be false...

 

Ergo, there are direct descendants of the Emperor running around the dusty corners of the setting fighting their own petty struggles for the good of Man and possibly granting redemption and solace to former champions of the dark gods

Been a few too many "canon" arguments of late - what I'll say on it is this: if it works for you, great. I've seen nothing to indicate that the story still utilizes that element, therefore there are currently only Shrödinger's Emperor's biological children so until they are revealed, they have no meaning to the greater galactic setting.

 

The Emperor never did and only acted towards his own goals. And yes, I regard even Primarchs as human.

That he had goals for the guidance of the whole of humanity toward survival would indicate that he cares enough about humanity to make the attempt.

 

And since the setting has given us enough information on it, we don't have to bother arguing the last statement here: you can regard them as human, but they aren't.

[Ishagu]

The Emperor doesn't care about individual people.

 

He cares about humanity as a whole however, it's the only thing he cares about.

 

This is explained in Dark Imperium.

[Ciler]

The Emperor doesn't care about individual people.

 

He cares about humanity as a whole however, it's the only thing he cares about.

 

This is explained in Dark Imperium.

As well as many other heresy novels. The casual disregard with which imperial soldiers are sent to die by the thousands during the crusade - while the emperor is around - clearly demonstrates that no individual life is of value to him.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

The Emperor doesn't care about individual people.

 

He cares about humanity as a whole however, it's the only thing he cares about.

 

This is explained in Dark Imperium.

As well as many other heresy novels. The casual disregard with which imperial soldiers are sent to die by the thousands during the crusade - while the emperor is around - clearly demonstrates that no individual life is of value to him.

 

 

Making him the lowest of low in my eyes.

[Ishagu]

Actually it's the best way to run a galactic empire.

[Bryan Blaire]

Making him the lowest of low in my eyes.

You can't actually care about every single person individually, regardless of the situation. He's not any lower than any human being, who also can't care for everyone in an entire galaxy (heck, even just the entire planet is exceptionally difficult) - saying you do is nothing more than stating an ideal. Resource allocation is necessary for any enterprise, including running a government of any kind and at some point, something will slip through the cracks. Having an ideal to "care for everyone individually" wouldn't have served the Emperor any better than his ideal to "make sure Humanity survives" has.

 

Truthfully, given humanity's tendency to self-driven survival, the latter ideal actually plays more into true nature than the other ideal would.

[M@verik115]

Frater Cornelius is a heretic! What? Next you are going to tell us that the Imperium should embrace filthy xeno ideologies about holding hands for the greater good or some such rubbish?!