Loadout for Leviathan dreadnought

[sneakybamsen]

Quick question: Which loadout for the leviathan dreadnought?

 

Have the model unassembled with a cyclonic melta lance and CCW, but that was ordered when 8th was not yet out. Now I'm thinking that variant is not as awesome anymore. The melta lance is expensive and probably won't outperform the grav flux bombard in most cases. I mean, it's decent with 2d3 shots s9 AP-4 and D6 damage, but the grav does 5 flat damage vs vehicles/monsters, albeit with a lower amount of shots vs single targets. The Storm cannon seems quite awesome too, however. Slightly better range, so not as much in need of a dreadnought drop pod, especially not with two of the storm cannons. Heavy 10 S7 AP-2 D2 per cannon. It's a lot of shots, but I'm not sure if it's killy enough vs big things.

 

I'm asking because I'm considering getting either storm cannons or grav flux bombards for both arms and magnetizing it.

 

Regards

Sneaky

[dtse]

Magnetize.

 

Both are strong. Storm cannons have longer range so really which you use is dependent on how you plan on using it. In a static gunline double storm cannon is hard to beat. If you are using him In a pod to drop into enemy territory then ether grav flux or even double claw is best. Melta thing is not worth it. If you do the math in the melta ability it's not actually that good a deal. Certainly not as big as it was in 7th.

[sneakybamsen]

No doubt the melta is far from awesome. As I wrote, though, I bought it pre 8th edition. Plan is magnetizing, which I also mentioned towards the end :)

 

Double claw makes for 2 melta shots on the drop or popping smoke, if you want your opponent to use as much firepower as possible trying to take it down. Also makes it more of a beast in CC. I don't have the book with me, but according to battlescribe, it's 2 attacks with no claws, 3 with 1 claw and 4 with two claws. For a close combat monster (which is what a dual CCW dreadnought should be) that doesn't feel like a lot.

 

Melta rule in 8th is not great. Especially not with deepstrike/drop pod limitations of more than 9" from opponent.

[Helycon]

Double graven flux bombard is very strong, but needs you to get close. It works well when you use a pod, but it adds immensely to the cost. The storm canon is great too, seeing it's a better autocannon, albeit with shorter range. Dirt cheap for the amount of shots though. A grab flux is more versatile at even shorter range, but a bit more RNG. It can wreck vehicles and monsters though, that's why you either pair it with the storm canon, or just...have two of them!

It's fun in CC too, but difficult to get there. If only we could use Stormraven... Here's to hoping our codex adds it :D .

 

The Leviathan is a great and versatile model for medium to short range that can take care of almost anything whilst being more survivable than a Land Raider.

[sneakybamsen]

I've ordered two storm cannons from FW, as I tend to prefer trying to shoot my opponent. As mentioned, it's going to be magnetized, so later on, when cash are hanging more losely, I'll probably expand my options with two grav flux bombards. Then I'll have a buckload of options and when it's all painted, my opponents will find it hard to get a game vs me where I won't be fielding some variant of leviathan :)

[Stormxlr]

Why do you guys consider going for double guns instead of gun/fist? Loosing out on 3 str16 attacks with claw or drill? Either one is great and can be put to a lot of use, instead of being helpless if something charges you.  Also great for taking out characters.

[dtse]

Really just depends on how you intend to use your dread.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I rarely get close enough with Dreads to attack targets that warrant S16, I focus them on shooting stuff

[dtse]

I used the leviathan with two fists in a Lucius when I first got it. It certainly does wreck things but not as much as it does as a shooting dread.

[Ishagu]

Melta and Drill is the best! This is how I run mine with no regrets.

 

Against a single target or unit under 10 you have as many shots as a double Grav with comparable power, and without Sacrificing your close combat ability!

 

Also, Chaos don't have access to the weapon which gives it extra cool points.

 

You don't need the Dread for horde hunting, there are enough other things that do that.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Ishagu

[Stormxlr]

The thing is leaving a dread without a fist just makes it so susceptible to an enemy charge. Just having a str12+ fist  with a flamer or something is such a charge deterrent.

[Ishagu]

Yep, it's valuable to have close combat capabilities on a strong platform like the Leviathan.

[Helycon]

It's hilarious to just murder a supeheavy from afar though, and shooting 20 S7 AP-1 D2 shots into terminators is also fun. You just know some will die. Choices...!

 

I vote for a Storm Raven to drop it into close combat though.. so hopefully the new codex gives us that!

Edited October 12, 2017 by Helycon

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Yep, it's valuable to have close combat capabilities on a strong platform like the Leviathan.

Gonna have to disagree here. While close combat ability is nice, the opportunity cost is too high for me to consider a CCW in my tournament lists. To take a claw, not only do you have to sacrifice 10 S7 AP-2 shots a turn, you have to pay MORE to do so. It's just not efficient.

 

A 32" threat range is not tiny, and the Stormcannon Array is an amazing all-arounder. Each gun on average kills 4 terminators when you're working with rerolls, wrecks marine squads, clears out hordes, or comes close to killing a Rhino chassis. Sacrificng that much damage potential a turn just to have a small, ineffective deterrent (3 attacks still isn't likely to clear out what is tying you up in their fight phase, meaning you still lose out on a turj of shooting). Your list in 8th should already have some sort of bubble wrap, use that to keep them off of your Leviathans.

 

Last point: a good trick is to free up Leviathans using Smite so that you don't have to fall back. As my list uses Guard as bubblewrap, throwing a Primaris Psyker in as one of the IG HQs allows le to have a smite battery finish off units that are able to touch my Leviathan.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Brother-Captain Sharp

[Ishagu]

If you want to look at it purely on an efficiency basis, why take a Leviathan at all?

 

Looking at the Stormcannon array, why not take 3 Assault Cannon Razorbacks and a squad of Marines? Or two Deredeos with Anvilus Autocannons and Heavy Bolters?

 

TC has to be very clear in what he's pursuing; a fun but usable build or pure numbers.

Chaos can get extra worth out of the Leviathan because of Warp Time.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Ishagu

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

You can't take 3 Assaultbacks and a squad for the cost of a 2x SC Levi. It's only 309 points.

 

If you want to look at it purely on an efficiency basis, why take a Leviathan at all?

 

What are you talking about? The 2x Stormcannon Leviathan is one of the most efficient choices for SMs, if not tops. Assault cannons are absolutely not a replacement for the shots you're getting from it. Not only are they S6, meaning they struggle to wound vehicles, they also only do D1 with a minor rend. If you shoot an Assaultback at a vehicle, you're hoping for a hail mary plink off. Same for the Deredeos. While they have S8, which helps with vehicle hunting, their lack of a point of rend hurts them and two of them don't put out as many quality shots as a 2x SC Leviathan. The Deredeos are also 95 points more for the pair.

 

I was recently at Harvester, and the number of 2x SC Levis I saw was pretty nuts. Last round my opponent and I were both 3-1 and had 5 of them on the table between the two of us. It is such a flexible and outright devastating choice that you'll have a hard time finding much that can compare in a points/wounds basis to same many different targets. Add on top of that the Leviathan is going to be much, much harder to kill than either of the alternatives you suggested due to T8 2+/4++ and you'll see why I'm so adamant about it.

Edited October 14, 2017 by Brother-Captain Sharp