Where to go next?

[Race Bannon]

Vyper ... :facepalm: ... math is flawed because RB + Truth != IH, where "Truth" = appreciation for non-stereotypical vision of Raven Guard combat doctrine. 

 

Just sayin'.  And since I say so, by the rules of the Internet, I win.  VICTORY IS MINE!

 

Good luck Damo!  Pic or it didn't happen ^_^

[Jacques Corbin]

Vyper ... :facepalm: ... math is flawed because RB + Truth != IH, where "Truth" = appreciation for non-stereotypical vision of Raven Guard combat doctrine.

 

Just sayin'. And since I say so, by the rules of the Internet, I win. VICTORY IS MINE!

 

Good luck Damo! Pic or it didn't happen ^_^

Gotta love @Race, he is his own rimshot guy.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

Vyper ... ... math is flawed because RB + Truth != IH, where "Truth" = appreciation for non-stereotypical vision of Raven Guard combat doctrine.

 

Just sayin'. And since I say so, by the rules of the Internet, I win. VICTORY IS MINE!

 

Good luck Damo! Pic or it didn't happen

Gotta love @Race, he is his own rimshot guy.

 

 

Yea, he's a classic. 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

What's a "Standard" Raven Guard tank? My guess is something like the Sabre tank hunter, which is lightweight (easy to transport, potentially faster and more maneuverable); has a weapon whose range matches or outmatches those of its likely opponents; and (an important, but often neglected point) has high commonality with other Raven Guard vehicles, meaning repairs and logistical support is easily provided.

[seriade]

There are a lot of lore reasons why the raven guard do what they do with relation to tanks.  Way back in the day they would of been the jump pack specialists and that has been flushed out to the fact they are the espionage chapter.  The raven guard have some unique advantages deliverance while the raven guard home world is not a planet but a moon that orbits Kiavahr a forge world that is more then capable of providing them with most of the equipment they need.  The second thing that relegates the general lack of need for heavy armor although they do have and use it is that Legio Vindictus happens to be stationed at said given forge world and why bring a tank to a fight when you can bring a titan.  

 

 

But lets talk normal tanks marines use in terms of the game:

 

Land raiders tend to be way to expensive from a game point of view they can draw fire and soak damage but have  a massive bulls eye on them.

The vindicator is not good at what it used to do being kill mass troops it can put the hurt on  a vehicle but other things do that better

The predator is good in a group of 3 but that is rather pricy.  However single predators are worse then 2 lasbacks

The hunter and stalker are nice as its a 2 for 1 deal on purchase but are special role vehicles and can be either game changers or next to useless

the wirlwind/thunderfire cannon arty take them if you need them but your almost better off point for point just allying guard at that point or using forge world arty.

Repulsor has the same issues as the land raider its very expensive and you need to build the army around it.

 

so those are the tanks from the basic codex the predator is the only one that is really usable regularly that is not a rhino or razorback.  If we mix in forge world vehicles this creates a whole different argument sicarns are probably the best tanks marines have access to.  The scorpius is probably the best arty piece that marines can take that is not 30k equipment.  The actual super heavy tanks who knows and would probably require a lot of testing and could see a re-balance come December with chapter approved.

[Damo1701]

I love that there is a large difference in how we see the Raven Guard!

 

Recently, my experience has shown me that I will be better off using the Raven Guard arsenal as a whole, rather than just picking the parts that are overly emphasised in the scattering of lore that we have been given.

 

So, to that end, here is what I am thinking.

 

1) Armour - I do need some more support to choose from, so, I'm toying with the idea of working towards getting a Fellblade, a Whirlwind Scorpios, and a couple of different Deimos predators, one I'll use as a relic with las/plas, the other will count as a normal predator. Don't see the point in using an elite slot for a basic predator loadouts compared to the special relic versions.

 

2) Infantry - work on expanding some 5-man squads to 10-man squads for the tacticals at the moment, add finds to the Forge World pot, so I can bulk my 2 assault squads to 10-man squads too.

 

3) Support - Been looking at the Thunderfire cannon models, and they do seem rather fun to use. These might pit an appearance in.

 

4) Characters - I have a chaplain with Jump Pack and Twin Lightning claws from last edition, (Swift Strike and Murder), that I could strip down all the chaplain stuff, swap out the Lightning Claws for a Bolter and Chainsword, and stick a MK VI head on to make a lieutenant, I have a techmarine on a bike that needs painting, and some other characters that are just posing around while I figure out how to use them.

 

5) Dreadnoughts - 2 Contemptors already, with a relic Contemptor waiting to be painted. Am thinking a basic Leviathan or two might be fun, as well as a Deredo for longer range support.

 

Corax will appear eventually, and, if needs be, I'll just use Guilliman's rules for him until he gets some rules of his own.

[Race Bannon]

Oooh yeah, Thunderfire Cannon!

 

Do that :tu:

 

I did and have another one planned ^_^

[Claws and Effect]

I do see the Raven Guard making heavy use of things like Whirlwinds. Or anything else that can be parked a ways off and have strikes called in from.

 

As far as anti-armor? I see them more using things like double melta Land Speeders over Predators.

 

 

I like the positivity in that Corax will eventually get rules in 40k. He'll have to wait for Lion and Russ, but he'll get them eventually

Edited September 28, 2017 by Claws and Effect

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Big fan of the Scorpius, so that's my vote. 

[Jacques Corbin]

Not liking the Whirlwind. Looks better in paper, but I average 6-8 shots from the TFC every time I fire it. Plus, with our Chapter Tactics, it is dead hard to dig out of cover, and that if if you do not have it hiding behind line of sight blocking terrain, because a TFC does not need LoS to shoot a target.

 

I have a Venerable Dreadnought with Missile Launcher and Twin Lascannon that I have been underwhelmed with. I may just drop him, and add a Stalker, and a barebones walking Lieutenant. The Stalker is T8, and would be a fun LoS blocker for the TFC, and the Techmarine Gunner can fix the Stalker as necessary, because the gun shoots for itself. Now just hope that Stalker does not blow up...

 

The walking Lieutenant is there solely to babysit my Fire Support elements. Imagine Lascannons that reroll 1s to wound. Not to mention the TFC and the Stalker. And, he is ok in Melee, 4 attacks hitting on 2+ with his Chainsword, to do a Heroic Intervention if any unit in his bubble is charged.

 

My Ironclad either does a lot of Heavy lifting, or soaks up a ton of fire first turn. If the latter happens, guess what? T8 means that there are a lot of other vehicles and infantry not being shot at.

 

I really want to make Scout Bikers work, but I just cannot seem to work them into a list. Any of you had any luck?

[Claws and Effect]

I'm going with a Whirlwind because it was cheaper to get a turret grom Kromlech to use on my unglued Razorback chassis than to buy a wjole new unit.

[thewarriorhunter]

I've been reading through this whole thread and loving it. I had a response ready to go and then seriade took the wind out of my sails because he beat me to it.

 

The RG have a Forgeworld as the closest thing to their base. I would imagine that they have access to whatever they want and could therefore field whatever they want. Now I don't think they'll be rolling in a column of land raiders but I can see them bringing a column to bear if the situation necessitated it.

 

I can't remember who said it but I think having a tank or two on one end of the board drawing the enemy in and drawing fire while deep strikers come in behind them is very 'fluffy' and probably how I'll be playing my army going forward. It makes sense to keep some powerful long range units in the list especially since our CT benefits those units directly.

 

I think tanks and transports are good investments for this edition. A las-predator with a captain nearby giving rerolls is a pretty potent unit, especially if you can obscure it behind cover to add one to it's save.

 

My long terms goals are to eventually build a couple of knights that are from the Legio Vindictus house to tie them into my army, and probably a unit or two of AdMech as the 'support' for the knights. I think those units would be more for fluff in larger games but that's the picture I've created in my head for my army.

[Jacques Corbin]

On that note, the Stygies VIII Ad Mech have our CT

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Not liking the Whirlwind. Looks better in paper, but I average 6-8 shots from the TFC every time I fire it. Plus, with our Chapter Tactics, it is dead hard to dig out of cover, and that if if you do not have it hiding behind line of sight blocking terrain, because a TFC does not need LoS to shoot a target.

 

The TFC is a Vehicle, so it doesn't gain the benefit of -1 to Hit. That being said, like you mentioned, it should always be behind LOS if you can manage. Disclaimer: I have not played with a TFC in 8th. Its firepower/points ratio feels underwhelming. A dev squad with 4 Heavy Bolters is cheaper (by 16? points), consistently dumps out more firepower, and does benefit from our Chapter Tactics.

 

All that said, I can see taking them in a list with a sizeable ratio of armor, because:

 

1) You can place the TFC inside a vehicle cordon where it is out of LOS, and the Techmarine can repair stuff

2) You are getting a Techmarine (albeit over-equipped) for a discount, which helps make up for his gear that will rarely be used (so that's nice).

 

I guess its other shining attribute is it doesn't give up kill points easy? I assume once the cannon dies the Techmarine will be semi-immune to incoming fire, thus allowing him to fade away and deny the point. 

 

 

I really want to make Scout Bikers work, but I just cannot seem to work them into a list. Any of you had any luck?

 

They, like assault squads, feel like cheap fodder to take free maelstrom points. Any other expectation (in this edition) is asking for disappointment. At least, that's my assessment thus far.

[Damo1701]

Well, my Forge World order turned up today, and it's the fastest I've ever had one.  Ordered on Tuesday, including an item advertising a 10-day lead time, and it arrived at lunchtime today...  Wow.

 

The parts that are mine are 10 Mk III Shoulder Pads, for the BoP marines I need to build, and my Moritat with dual plasma pistols who will be my first official Lieutenant model for my Raven Guard, rather than using Chaplain/Captain models.

 

So, looking at the pieces, I'm considering keeping him with the dual Plasma Pistols, capping off shots should be fairly easy for him, and switching out his shoulder pad from a studded one for a blank one, ready for the legion symbol.

 

Any other suggestions on how to arm him?  I'm thinking he should be a buff unit for my devastators, and a rapid reaction/speed bump unit, to protect said devastators.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Damo1701

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Unfortunately the Lieutenant can't have twin plasma pistols, that is sadly reserved for Sergeants and Vanguard Veterans :(

 

You could pay for a combi-plasma and use the twin plasma pistols as counts-as maybe? Just have to remember the difference (one shot at 24", no shooting in combat, etc)

 

Alternatively clip off one pistol and give him a Chainsword or something similar. 

[Race Bannon]

Do

The

Combi

Weapon

Idea

[Damo1701]

Well, I've gone and built him up.

 

Combi-plasma, Chainsword, and Jump Pack.

 

A bit of Brass Etch for logos, nothing too fancy.

 

The Chainsword, being from the Mk III sprue will become the Teeth of Terra, seeing as it is a free upgrade.

 

That way, he can both babysit devastators or get stuck in if the situation calls for it.

 

I'll post pics later.

 

Now, trying to decide on whether I want to get another one, or, something different for the second company Lieutenant. Though, I still have the option of cutting up my Chaplain with Lightning claws model, though, if I do that, the opportunity for the odd 7th edition game goes out the window.

[duz_]

Ive modelled both my Lts differently one to hang with my VVs the other to chill with my devs. Was fun being able to build the same unit completely differently adds more subtle flavour to it all.

[Race Bannon]

If 7e games are the odd man out, then build for 8e and go without for the 7e game.  That means you'll have to build a dude for 7e which is not a bad thing ;)

[Jacques Corbin]

Do not think I do not see you there in the Peanut Gallery, @Race Bannon! So where are you going next? What are you adding to your collection, or to your lists?

[Race Bannon]

Me?  This thread is for Damo ^_^

 

But I'm still working on that Terminus.  Work and family took a turn that needs my attention more than that beast.  It's all good :yes:

[thewarriorhunter]

 

 Work and family took a turn that needs my attention more than that beast.  It's all good

 

Isn't that the truth. A couple weeks ago I was painting almost every night. Now I'm trying to figure out if I have enough energy and time to even try to get one color/detail done.

[Jacques Corbin]

For me, I think I am dropping the Twin Lascannons and Missile Launcher Venerable Dreadnought for a Squad of 5 barebones Sternguard and a barebones walking Lieutenant. The Sternguard will make valuable deep strike insurance, but will not draw much attention, what with them just being stock and all. My local meta has learned NOT TO DEEP STRIKE WITHIN 12" OF MY LASCANNON DEVASTATORS WHEN I HAVE 2 CP LEFT. The big plan is to place them in the backfield near a gap that I "mistakenly" left open, only for them to eat 10 shots of that sweet -2AP, albeit hitting on a 4+, when I bust out Auspex Scan. I only hope they set a character down first.

 

That walking Lieutenant, well, he's there to babysit the Devastators.

[Damo1701]

Anybody go an idea on how we can counter Grey Knight Mortal Wound spam?

 

Countering Dreadknight/Imperial Knight combo at the same time would be very beneficial too...

 

There is only so much that area denial will work for deepstriking GKs when you have to counter everything they kick out at either Mortal wounds or D2...