Brotherhood Champion - Heroic Sacrifice + Only in Death

[swordofmandulis]

Guys,

 

here's a question, can the Brotherhood Champion do Heroic Sacrifice to fight when killed, and use the stratagem Only in death to fight when killed enabling 2 additional fights before being removed?

 

thanks

 

 

[Muaddib]

Hum...

It's v8 40k, if nothing says you can't, then you can. MosDef. I think. Probably. Maybe.

[Gentlemanloser]

No reason you can't use both.

 

Both trigger on the BC being slain and both are used before he's removed as a casualty.

[swordofmandulis]

so if I can deliver my BroChamp to something big and scary and make the charge assuming I took the "Hammer of Righteousness" warlord trait, I get hammerhand off, and I select the blade strike stance I can deliver 12 attacks, hitting on 2's, wounding up to T7 on 2's (adding 1 for WT, 1 for hammer hand and 1 for blade stike), D3 damage. pretty sure anything in the game should be scared of that.

[Gentlemanloser]

That would cause on average 16.7 damage.

 

An Apothecary using Only in Death (no warlord trait) also deals 16.7 damage, facing up to T8. With the same -3AP.

 

You could give him the relic hammer or the nemesis lord warlord trait to buff that even more.

 

Edit. Which would take him to 22.2 damage!

 

And he's 10 points cheaper. Not HQ slot, but has the regen.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[skarn]

I reckon its only a matter of time until the apothecary gets nerfed. He is so much better than any of our troops.

[swordofmandulis]

I could easily be wrong,  I have the apothecary (4 attacks hitting on 3's) with OiD and HH up and no WT doing 13.14 Damage up to T7 and 10.44 vs T8

 

Brotherhood Champion (4 attacks hitting on 2's) with WT/HH/BS and OiD doing 16.53 up to T7 and 13.14 vs T8

 

Apothecary with Relic Hammer, HH and OiD tops the Brochamp with 17.52 up to T7 and 13.92 vs T8

 

how did you get to 22.2?

 

Just did some more maths (if mine is correct) its actually better to have the Nemesis lord trait on the Brochamp and wound T5-7 on 3's and T8 on 4's.

 

I'm getting 24.78 vs T4, 19.71 vs T5-T7 and 14.94 vs T8

 

some one please tell me if the numbers are off though.

Edited September 28, 2017 by swordofmandulis

[Gentlemanloser]

Opps. Seems i have been cheating a little. ;)

 

I thought he had 5A.

[swordofmandulis]

No doubt the Apothecary is a beast, I usually have one in my bigger lists, this is for a 750pt doubles list so the cheap HQ is useful. I'll give the Brotherhood Champion a run out and see if he does a good job.

[Gentlemanloser]

HH doesn't help an Apoth until T9 up.

 

He wounds on 2+ T8 and below, and a roll of 1 is always a fail.

[Helycon]

HH doesn't help an Apoth until T9 up.

 

He wounds on 2+ T8 and below, and a roll of 1 is always a fail.

A hammer Apothecary is S8, therefore wounding anything of T5 and over on a 3+, and T8 on a 4+, or am I missing something?

[Gentlemanloser]

Gah! Ignore me....

 

For some reason i was looking at s8 wounding t8 in 2's.

 

Think ill go back to bed. Today has been a wash.

[Seizeman]

It is not an issue of the apothecary being too good, is an issue of most of our units being too expensive. Except for razorbacks, storm ravens, strikes and maybe GMNDKs, every unit needs a cost reduction.

[Danarc]

Actually with hammerhand apo with hammer wounds T5+ with 2+ and T8+ with 3+ ;)

[Waking Dreamer]

I could easily be wrong,  I have the apothecary (4 attacks hitting on 3's) with OiD and HH up and no WT doing 13.14 Damage up to T7 and 10.44 vs T8

 

Brotherhood Champion (4 attacks hitting on 2's) with WT/HH/BS and OiD doing 16.53 up to T7 and 13.14 vs T8

 

Apothecary with Relic Hammer, HH and OiD tops the Brochamp with 17.52 up to T7 and 13.92 vs T8

 

how did you get to 22.2?

 

Just did some more maths (if mine is correct) its actually better to have the Nemesis lord trait on the Brochamp and wound T5-7 on 3's and T8 on 4's.

 

I'm getting 24.78 vs T4, 19.71 vs T5-T7 and 14.94 vs T8

 

some one please tell me if the numbers are off though.

 

So with the right setup the BroChamp exceeds the Apoth even if the latter gets the relic hammer? Nice...seems good for a killy HQ who costs more than the Apoth. 

[skarn]

This is all assuming that you can combo the rule with the strategem. I'm not convinced, and I think your opponents wont be either.

[Captain Coolpants]

Well if a squad of 20 khorne bazerkrs can stack their stratagems with their special rule allowing 3 fight phases in 1 turn, then I really doubt they'll bitch about a single guy doing the same...

[Helycon]

Actually with hammerhand apo with hammer wounds T5+ with 2+ and T8+ with 3+ ;)

I know. Since Gentleman wasn't using HH, neither was I :)