What are Paladins?

[Phoebus]

The topic title says it all. What exactly are the Paladins of the Dark Angels?

 

The first reference to them (that I know of) is in Aaron Dembski-Bowden’s short story, “Savage Weapons”:

 

“The other was Corswain, Paladin of the Ninth Order, bearer of the Mantle of the Champion.”

 

Excerpt From

Age of Darkness

Christian Dunn

This material may be protected by copyright.

Not much information is given regarding what either title entails, however. One can probably guess what the Mantle of the Champion involves, but it’s left to the reader to decide what the rank and title of Paladin is about. Besides the romantic image raised by the tales of Charlemagne and the Song of Roland, we have the modern definitions (a trusted military leader, as for a medieval prince; a leading champion of a cause) and the historic roots of the word (a Roman-era palace official).

 

Leman Russ, by Chris Wraight, seems to use Paladins as an elite formation within the Dark Angels - perhaps like the Palatine Blades of the Emperor’s Children. Now there are multiple Paladins per Order ...

 

“... the elite paladins of the Ninth Order” ...

 

Excerpt From

Leman Russ: The Great Wolf

Chris Wraight

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/leman-russ-the-great-wolf/id1170542760?mt=11

This material may be protected by copyright.

... and, however they might be divided among the Orders, they would appear to have a standing officer in charge of them:

 

“... the paladin commander, Inardin, ...”

 

Excerpt From

Leman Russ: The Great Wolf

Chris Wraight

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/leman-russ-the-great-wolf/id1170542760?mt=11

This material may be protected by copyright.

Gav Thorpe’s Angels of Caliban, though, seems to recast the Paladin as the officer in command of an Order:

 

“Voted lieutenant, I am requesting your brotherhood’s intervention and relinquish authority to your command for the duration of the impending action. ... The Lion granted me full tactical command and I am exercising my right to invoke a Dreadwing assault.”

 

Excerpt From

Angels of Caliban

Gav Thrope

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/angels-of-caliban/id1122414375?mt=11

This material may be protected by copyright.

So which is it? One of a number of champions that can be found within each Order of the Dark Angels? An officer who commands thousands of Dark Angels (as opposed to a “mere” Captain or Grand Master)? Or is it a combination of both - like the Consul’s Legion Champion template in the Horus Heresy game?

[Marshal Rohr]

Knightly Orders didn't have strict hierarchies like a normal military, so if I was to infer from that I would say a paladin is simply a veteran warrior or senior knight instead of a formal rank. ADB will have more insight.

[Vesper]

I'vs always felt like it was an honorific title and nothing more.

[Phoebus]

Knightly Orders didn't have strict hierarchies like a normal military, so if I was to infer from that I would say a paladin is simply a veteran warrior or senior knight instead of a formal rank. ADB will have more insight.

It may very well end up being a case of that. I’m not sure it’s not something formal, though; at the risk of sounding overly broad, things within an organization that are capitalized tend to be formal.

 

As for knightly orders themselves (and by those, I mean the Christian military orders), I’m hardly well-versed in their structure, but they do appear to have had strict hierarchies. By virtue of their size, though, they appear to have been much more streamlined than what we would expect from a modern military.

 

I'vs always felt like it was an honorific title and nothing more.

I contemplated that, but felt that “bearer of the Mantle of Champion” made it feel redundant. As in, a Space Marine who is introduced to the reader with two honorifics but no actual rank or station?

[HeritorA]

Knightly Orders didn't have strict hierarchies like a normal military, so if I was to infer from that I would say a paladin is simply a veteran warrior or senior knight instead of a formal rank. ADB will have more insight.

Indeed. I do hope he will do Sangy or Lion for the Primarchs and a lot of questions about logistics and structure of both Legions would be answered at last.

 

As for now I stand for the Paladins being a senior knight in command of specific task/chapter

[Corswain]

I'm leaning towards a command/champion role. Probably the DA unique version of a consul. I think that will be the case in regards to both FW and BL.

Really hard to be sure though, there is so little info.

[rendingon1+]

Actually Orders had very strict hierarchy and chain of command, in war and peace alike. That's what made them (for example Knights Templar) 1000x better than a common knightly rabble.

 

About paladins - Who knows. I hope that FW will answear that one day, BL novels never were a credible source when it comes to ranks and numbers.

My opinion.

Edited October 2, 2017 by rendingon1+

[HeritorA]

I'm leaning towards a command/champion role. Probably the DA unique version of a consul. I think that will be the case in regards to both FW and BL.

Really hard to be sure though, there is so little info.

Ahh - Consul/Praetor even better.

 

Actually Orders had very strict hierarchy and chain of command, in war and peace alike. That's what made them (for example Knights Templar) 1000x better than a common knightly rubble.

 

About paladins - Who knows. I hope that FW will answear that one day, BL novels never were a credible source when it comes to ranks and numbers.

My opinion.

Plus I see them as elite of elite - and direct inner guard circle to Luther and Lion

[DarKnight]

I'm still waiting to find out what a Bearseark (s/p) from Betrayer is for the Wolves. More examples of AD-B's talent at individualizing each Legion but yeah, I figured a Paladin as a sort of Champion rank.

[Phoebus]

Here are some additional references to the Dark Angels' command structure:

1. The Seneschal, an office held by Corswain at this point in the Horus Heresy (but formerly held by Luther), acts as a second to the Lion himself ("By the Lion's Command"; Angels of Caliban).
2. A Grand Master is in command of an Order ("By the Lion's Command").
3. A Chapter Master is in command of, well, a Chapter (Descent of Angels, "Call of the Lion", etc.).
4. A Chapter Master can, however, be promoted to command of an Order without becoming a Grand Master ("By the Lion's Command").
5. There is more than one Paladin in an Order (Leman Russ: The Great Wolf).
6. There are Paladin-rank combinations; Corswain is referred to as Paladin-Captain (capitalized; Angels of Caliban), and fifty Paladins of the Ninth Order are commanded by a "paladin commander" (not capitalized; Leman Russ: The Great Wolf).
7. A Captain is in command of a Company ("Call of the Lion", Fallen Angels).

EDIT: while my intent is not to break this down to direct novel-game correlations, here's how I imagine it would compare to the Forge World series of books -

1. The Seneschal and Grand Masters probably equate best to unique characters, like Eidolon, Sigismund, etc. - characters with the Master of the Legion rule, if you will.
2. Chapter Masters are probably the Forge World equivalent of Praetors
3. Captains are Centurions
4. Paladins can probably fall under more than one category -
   1. Ranking Paladins (e.g., Barzareon, Xavis; Corswain before ascending to the office of Seneschal) are probably the equivalent of either a Praetor or a Consul with the Legion Champion template
   2. Paladins may also fall under a formation of elites - like the Palatine Blades of the Emperor's Children

Edited October 4, 2017 by Phoebus

[Sandlemad]

I'm still waiting to find out what a Bearseark (s/p) from Betrayer is for the Wolves. More examples of AD-B's talent at individualizing each Legion but yeah, I figured a Paladin as a sort of Champion rank.

 

Given that the term is an anglicised variant of 'berzerk' and that Wraight has also used it (the phrase "like a baresark of the old ice" is used pretty frequently by the wolves), I think it is what it sounds like: a space wolf warrior with more than the usual level of fury/frenzy. I don't think it's a rank or conventional honorific so much as a descriptor drawn from Fenrisian culture. Not sure how Khârn and Kargos picked it up though.

 

RE: Paladins: the detective work is genuinely great but considering how much emphasis has been put on the impenetrable, byzantine nature of the Dark Angels' organisational structure(s), I think there's a good possibility that FW's treatment of the 1st legion will not actually give us the detail we want. Parts of the TS 'Pesdjet' organisation were left occluded and subject to variation in Inferno, and they're surely the most anal-retentive legion apart from the DA. This is putting aside the possibility (probability?) that the authors you cite have been using the term with some inconsistency.

 

That said, the combinations you have identified suggest that it might be a sort of ritual office or level of initiation? As in a warrior could be captain in the conventional Principia Bellicosa hierarchy, something else in the wings of the Terran-in-origin Hexagrammaton, and then a paladin in some other Calibanite fraternity. I'm envisioning something vaguely Masonic or Mithraic.

 

When you say "a Space Marine who is introduced to the reader with two honorifics but no actual rank or station", this could imply that Corswain might be particularly important 'politically' because of those honorifics beyond what his military rank would suggest. We know he was close to the Lion even at the time of Savage Weapons and had some renown for defeating Alajos in a duel. Bit like the later importance of lodge offices in the SoH but more intricate.

 

Not sure where that leaves the formations of elites like the fifty paladins on Dulan. It's difficult to imagine an explanation that cover them and the other examples.

[rendingon1+]

For me it's only a question:

What's more awesome - having a commander called paladin or a unit called paladin bodyguard? ;)

[Mellow]

A Paladin is a semi tank that can cast magic spells.

 

 

Wait, wrong forum.

[Phoebus]

Sandlemad,

 

To your first point, I think you may very well be right. I hope that some light will shed on certain institutions of the Dark Angels - the Hexagrammaton/Wing structure and the Paladins, in particular - but I don't expect anything even approaching comprehensive knowledge of the proto-Inner Circle, if you will.

 

To your second point, I am pretty much convinced you're right. What you present feels very apropos to what we've seen thus far: it unifies themes neatly, and shows how different forms of power and authority can flow from many different places within this byzantine legion.

 

EDIT:

 

It should go without saying, but the consistency (or lack thereof) with which the term "Paladin" is used is probably the key issue here. It feels like both Thorpe and Wright sought to expand on A D-B's concept, though in different directions.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Phoebus

[DarKnight]

I hope that there is an actual answer for this even if it isn't explained to us as opposed to the "the byzantine ranking structures of the the I Legion leads to several different names for etc" that so much of the author oversight/sloppiness is supposed to be explained away by. It just feels cheap.

[bluntblade]

Baersark likely means champion.

[R_F_D]

Baersark likely means champion.

 

Champion of the baes?

I'll get my coat......

[Corswain]

Maybe it will be a more unofficial title? Kinda like a badge of honour for those who embody/champion the DA ideals and way of warfare.

Then they can be gathered together into Paladin squads when needed, like we've seen with the "wings" in Angels of Caliban.

 

So a particular individual might belong to their particular Chapter/Company/Order, as well as being a member of one of the Wings and also be a member of the Paladin Order. Seems very DA - Circles within circles.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Corswain

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Anyone consider that paladins perform the same role they do in the Grey Knights? A cadre of elite warriors

[shandwen]

Perhaps the authors of the DA books focused a bit too much on the "circles within circles" hidden meaning/truth bit for the DA.

I would doubt that half the titles mentioned in the books had any thought to their meaning before being typed into existence. It rather comes across that the Marines within the stories don't even know what half the honours and titles mean.

[Phoebus]

Brother Captain Kezef,

 

That's certainly the direction Wraight took, with Leman Russ: The Great Wolf. As indicated, though, that's not something shown consistently.

 

shandwen,

 

I don't think that was the intent in this case; I certainly don't think the Dark Angels themselves are unaware of what Grand Masters, Paladins, Voted Lieutenants, Voted Successors, etc., are.

[HeritorA]

Phoebus

amazing points on Dark Angels' command structure and FW. I wouldn't have said it better.

And exactly my thoughts on 'That's certainly the direction Wraight took, with Leman Russ: The Great Wolf. As indicated, though, that's not something shown consistently.'

[Doctor Perils]

The real-world Paladins were the closest warriors/bodyguards/counsellors of Charlemagne (before even the existence of chivalric orders therefore): there were twelve of them, and their most famous member was Roland.

Perhaps the Dark Angels' Paladins are members of the Legion that fought beside the Lion in the early days of the Great Crusade, acting as his bodyguards, and as the Crusade (and eventually the Heresy) drew on, they were moved to other parts of the Legion, as overseers trusted by the Primarch?