Destroyer Squads - which Legions used them?

[Calas Typhon]

Well the whole reason the Destroyers were formed as far as I remember was a sink for the absolute scum of the legion not entirely sure where it was referenced. those who wanted to see the Universe burn and the psychotic. It would essentially be a penal system in some cases. Rather than putting a marine down, just chuck them in the Destroyer corps. In some manner of speaking, each legion would have those that fit that mindset, even in serious legions like the Word Bearers before their enlightenment or the honourable like the Ultramarines.

 

Distant echoes of old night is a pretty good piece about Destroyers in fluff, however that is a Death Guard perspective.

[b1soul]

Destroyers are essentially just tacticals with rad or phosphex grenades, yes?

[Calas Typhon]

They are a formation of Legionaries, otherwise the whole of the Death Guard, Iron Warriors, Salamanders and the Alpha Legion would be Destroyers.

 

On the whole, they were a special weapons detachment. But you had to be really really messed up to serve there mostly, or you have done/are something questionable. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[Slips]

Destroyers are essentially just tacticals with rad or phosphex grenades, yes?

Not just grenades; they handled any radiation-based or chemical warfare weapons a Legion could employ (with exceptions like the DG) if it was deemed necessary.

[Zuvassin]

So are Marines in Destroyer squads permanently assigned to them? Would they not have been temporary assignments or if they're a form of penitent service, could a Marine earn himself back into the "normal" ranks with honorable service?

[Jareddm]

So are Marines in Destroyer squads permanently assigned to them? Would they not have been temporary assignments or if they're a form of penitent service, could a Marine earn himself back into the "normal" ranks with honorable service?

While it may be theoretically possible for a marine to return to normal service, the exposure to the horrific chemical and radioactive materials that Destroyer squads use would have already done its damage.  The life of the marine is essentially forfeit.  Besides, if he were to return to a traditional squad, I could only see him being treated as a pariah, or a vector for contagions that he was previously exposed to.

[Calas Typhon]

I doubt they will. Most of them are marked for censure in some form or another. Many are too unhinged and a few just would not want to go. I am sure there will be a number unwilling to stay in the sections, but its mostly a sink for degenerates.

[Zuvassin]

Have they mentioned the "life span" of a Destroyer?

 

Obviously the intent and reality is they die in combat, but has there been any indication as to how fast the exposure to their weaponry debilitates or kills them?

[Calas Typhon]

Well, most cases, it really depends on the marine. Skane the World Eater just cut parts out of him and replaced them. 

 

Another World Eater Destroyer by the name of Ruokh mentions in Khârn: Eater of Worlds that he has a very dark future planned and death is the only way he will truly cope. He becomes a Red Butcher.

 

The Destroyers will in most cases live a long time regardless of the weapon they are using, they just corrupt the flesh, and leave them pretty messed up. The effects of the Weapons wont damage them as much as where they are deployed. Zone Mortalis mostly, which as the name suggests, aint very pretty. 

[Brother Heinrich]

Also remember the difference between fluff and in-game equipment. In-game they're just rad grenade equipped legionnaires with dual bolt pistols and a sergeant who can take some phosphex bombs. In the fluff they were basically the dudes with keys to all the really nasty :cuss locked away from old night, radiation, phosphex, chemical weapons, tactical nuclear weapons, and anything else that would essentially render the ground they fight on completely unlivable.

 

They are a last resort weapon. Remember the purpose of the legions and the Imperial Army is unification of the galaxy, bringing humanities lost worlds and other new ones into the fold of the Imperium. Rendering them toxic nightmares in the name of conquest really puts a damper on that agenda, thus it's reserved for truly horrendous threats or otherwise impossible scenarios.

 

These dudes were coming apart at the seams, physically and mentally due to the stuff they are exposed to. In all honesty it's only because they are Legionnaires that they can handle and deploy this stuff. Regular mortals would succumb in moments.

[b1soul]

Are any of the non Rad and Phosphex weapons ever described in detail?

 

Any bio weapons or other nasties?

[Calas Typhon]

Are any of the non Rad and Phosphex weapons ever described in detail?

 

Any bio weapons or other nasties?

Distant Echoes goes into Phosphex grenades. They lob a few into a IF blockade which results in the Destroyers having to push through it to make sure everyone is dead. Pretty much eats anything.

 

Nothing on rad grenades though.

[Sulemain]

 

Are any of the non Rad and Phosphex weapons ever described in detail?

 

Any bio weapons or other nasties?

Distant Echoes goes into Phosphex grenades. They lob a few into a IF blockade which results in the Destroyers having to push through it to make sure everyone is dead. Pretty much eats anything.

 

Nothing on rad grenades though.

 

 

I have a theory that Phosphex is actually a nanite weapon. 

[b1soul]

I like the nanite idea

 

Phosphex is desribed as a legacy of Old Night, not the DAoT

 

...but perhaps its origins lie in the DAoT, and the Old Night version is actually watered down in comparison

[Laughingman]

I imagine them being used during the rangdan xenocide as sterilizing teams throwing rad grenades, phosphex and stasis bombs onto previously taken ground to make sure the xeno you thought was dead, stayed dead....

[Mazryonh]

 

I have a theory that Phosphex is actually a nanite weapon. 

 

I think that would be elbowing in on the Nanite Blaster's niche. But it would at least explain how Phosphex seems to seek out movement, because you can program Nanites to do so, but to my knowledge you can't "program" chemicals to do the same. 

 

Anyway, I don't know if "Phosphex only goes out in hard vacuum" is still canon, but if it is, then it seems a bit nearsighted to me. We've known ever since the Space Age that there are plenty of hypergolic chemical combinations that burn just fine in hard vacuum, because they carry their own oxidizer and don't need oxygen to burn. Phosphex seems a bit strange that way and wouldn't be nearly as deadly in Zone Mortalis scenarios (like starship-boarding actions) as it might be, if burning Phosphex could be extinguished just by venting the affected area's atmosphere into space. 

 

Sadly I think Destroyers are underpowered in the HH meta. Yes, it's nice to hear about how each legion put their own spin on them in the fluff, but what practical consequence is that in the real world if there's no real incentive for players to buy and use the Destroyer models? I would very much like to see unique models of Destroyers for each legion with their own perks, such as: 

 

• Blood Angels Destroyers bringing "The Curse of Baal" (a planet long rendered a radioactive wasteland by unrestricted NBC warfare) to their enemies, maybe even with biological weapons that make enemies bleed massively through their skin without visible wounds, like real-life hemorrhagic fevers do. 
• Death Guard Destroyers using Biophage weapons, a prelude to their fall to Nurgle.
• An entire Dreadwing Protocol for the Dark Angels, who were the first experts in Destroyer-centric warfare.
• Alpha Legion Destroyers using a mass-cultivated version of their Drakaina biological warfare pistols.
• Thousand Sons Destroyers who are psychically unstable and are prone to becoming Chaos Spawn (or worse) in the middle of battle to tear apart enemies. 

Above all I would like to see ingame Destroyers be given gear to match their rightly-feared status in the fluff. The description given to the Destroyer-centric Dreadwing in the HH novel Angels of Caliban shows just how much HH players are missing out on with their own Destroyers. We don't even have to go very far for a good start; just giving Destroyers access to some of the Mechanicum's Irrad weapons could be both a simple and fluffy copy-and-paste job. 

[Laughingman]

^

We had a thread on this a while back called make destroyer squads good

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/331010-make-destroyer-squads-good/

 

I pitched several ideas and weapons that could be added to make Destroyers squads worthy options: Radiologically enhanced ammo that on 6s rends was mine causes additional wounds that must be saved separately

Edited October 9, 2017 by Laughingman

[Mazryonh]

 

We had a thread on this a while back called make destroyer squads good

 

The fact remains that FW still hasn't done much to make Destroyers worthwhile on the tabletop. If they wanted to sell more, wouldn't it be easy to just to give Destroyers better rules? 

[Kizzdougs]

 

 

Are any of the non Rad and Phosphex weapons ever described in detail?

 

Any bio weapons or other nasties?

Distant Echoes goes into Phosphex grenades. They lob a few into a IF blockade which results in the Destroyers having to push through it to make sure everyone is dead. Pretty much eats anything.

 

Nothing on rad grenades though.

 

 

I have a theory that Phosphex is actually a nanite weapon. 

 

I always assumed that Phosphex was simply a 30k version of White Phosphorus?

[Sulemain]

 

 

 

Are any of the non Rad and Phosphex weapons ever described in detail?

 

Any bio weapons or other nasties?

Distant Echoes goes into Phosphex grenades. They lob a few into a IF blockade which results in the Destroyers having to push through it to make sure everyone is dead. Pretty much eats anything.

 

Nothing on rad grenades though.

 

 

I have a theory that Phosphex is actually a nanite weapon. 

 

I always assumed that Phosphex was simply a 30k version of White Phosphorus?

 

 

 

Yeah, it's meant to be, but the description of its behaviour is something much more than a simple chemical weapon. 

[Brother Heinrich]

In Distant Echoes of Old Night the way phosphex is described makes it seem like more of a heinous chemical weapon than an incendiary one. So less white phosphorus, and more a horrendously corrosive chemical that spreads in anomalous and unpredictable ways.

[bluntblade]

Path of Heaven also goes along that route. It's actually substantially different to phosphorous.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

We had a thread on this a while back called make destroyer squads good

The fact remains that FW still hasn't done much to make Destroyers worthwhile on the tabletop. If they wanted to sell more, wouldn't it be easy to just to give Destroyers better rules?

Drop their point cost to 100, every additional dude 15p instead of 20 and Jump Packs +5p each.

BAMM

Great unit.

It could be so easy.

[bluntblade]

TSons had them, it turns out Edited October 12, 2017 by bluntblade

[Mazryonh]

Drop their point cost to 100, every additional dude 15p instead of 20 and Jump Packs +5p each.

BAMM

Great unit.

It could be so easy.

 

Unless your name is Kaedes Nex, Bolt Pistols are unimpressive in 30k with all the MEQs or better running around, and most other pistol types don't cut it either (especially not hand flamers if you're not playing Death Guard and thus give them Chem ammo). But at least I agree with your dropping their points costs and Jump Pack upgrade cost to bring them inline with the new cheapened Assault Squads.

 

The problem is still that vanilla Destroyers have too little teeth as they stand now, especially since Techmarines can bring more Rad Missiles in a squad and Phosphex artillery is more effective than the Phosphex bombs available to Destroyers. We're still waiting on the rules to match the Destroyer's fluff. 

 

TSons had them, it turns out

 

Were they psychic?