Steel Legion

[defl0]

What do you guys thinks about steel legions? At first glance it seems lack luster, but as I started thinking about it, I think it has a lot of manuverability. 

 

You can disembark 3", move 6" and reembark 3" and move a tank 12" to pick them up. Plus you can double pack chimeras. 

 

So for 2K you can field something like: 

 

yarrik

10 X gryphone pattern chimera, twin hvy bolter, hvy bolter, storm bolter, las array

20 x 6 assault weapon squads w. 3 plasma guns

 

You can also do cool things like 2 x 5 command squads with 10 plasma guns at bs 3+, plus the med pacs are nice for plasma heavy. AND you can double tap at 18". Yarrick gives re roll 1's which makes 1's safer. 

 

Thoughts? 

[narcolepticltd]

 

You can disembark 3", move 6" and reembark 3" and move a tank 12" to pick them up. Plus you can double pack chimeras. 

 

 

Pretty sure that's not how this works

[HenricusTyranicus]

What do you guys thinks about steel legions? At first glance it seems lack luster, but as I started thinking about it, I think it has a lot of manuverability. 

 

You can disembark 3", move 6" and reembark 3" and move a tank 12" to pick them up. Plus you can double pack chimeras. 

 

So for 2K you can field something like: 

 

yarrik

10 X gryphone pattern chimera, twin hvy bolter, hvy bolter, storm bolter, las array

20 x 6 assault weapon squads w. 3 plasma guns

 

You can also do cool things like 2 x 5 command squads with 10 plasma guns at bs 3+, plus the med pacs are nice for plasma heavy. AND you can double tap at 18". Yarrick gives re roll 1's which makes 1's safer. 

 

Thoughts? 

I don't think anything about that works....

 

What FoC uses 20 elite slots and one HQ? The Steel Legion order simply doesn't work that way. You can't reembark  after disembarking.

Edited October 2, 2017 by HenricusTyranicus

[defl0]

 

Yup. looks Like I failed comprehending this completely... 

 

Seems crappy. 

[micahwc]

I bet it gets errata'd within a week or two of release.

[Guardsman Bob]

Jump out in the movement phase, shoot, jump back in. I think the value might be for squishy expensive units you wouldn’t want revenge killed.

[defl0]

I mean whats't the point if you can't use it on units that disembarked that turn...

[Guardsman Bob]

Clinging to the rear and all that? Yuck. I’ve tried some stupid maneuvering games already with disembarking. It all feels so pointlessly rigid.

 

Maybe we should focus on happy thoughts like 18” rapid fire?

[CaptainMarsh]

Guard rely on numbers of units, including transports, meaning survivability as an army and the viability of this order are interlinked. Mechanized Steel Legion won't be able to jump out, shoot, jump in, but the majority of a mechanized force can do it because the majority will survive turn by turn. Important, powerful units can benefit from the strategem. Well-played Steel Legion will be super annoying because they can move in groups, moving quickly in good transports, hitting well out of them, and being able to protect themselves after shooting a turn later. 

Being able to disembark, fire, and then embark in the same turn would be rather broken.
 

 

 

Doctrine- B. 18'' Rapid Fire allows you to stay on the outer edges of most enemies assault threat range. Ignoring AP-1 is fine, if not exceptional. In a mechanized force the Steel Legion works real well because of this Doctrine, however, making it real solid.

Order- B. Guard survival is numbers and it is transports. Being able to lay down firepower- possibly at 18''!- and hopping into a transport is amazing. You can use this on Valks(CORRECTION: NO). It isn't the best Order but it is really solid.

Strategem- B/C. This requires you to use transports...which if you're Steel Legion, you need to be using anyway. Getting a bonus to hit when you disembark is really good. However, the situational nature of it may bug people.

Relic/Trait- Not gonna grade, tired and they aren't all that important. Either way, there are much better options.

 

If you are running Guard who use a lot of transports, Steel Legion is really effective. Nothing they do will blow anyone away, but it works together so well. Your vehicles reduce the threat from anything except more dedicated anti-armor and you have a more survivable and threatening infantry force.

Edited October 2, 2017 by CaptainMarsh

[Zectz]

Don't think you can use the order to hop into Valk as it specifies Armageddon transports, which a Valk doesn't have the keyword.

[CaptainMarsh]

Ah, I keep on forgetting that Aeronautica is its own, stupid thing.:P Still, tossing your butt into any one of a number of more classic transports is awesome.

[sunspear]

I'm new to the AM and I'm thinking about the steel legion. I haven't got the codex yet but I have a quick question. Would units of steel legion be better off. It taking heavy weapons? It seems to me that they are better served Being mobile rapid fire and split types. Am I off base?

[Tirak]

I'm new to the AM and I'm thinking about the steel legion. I haven't got the codex yet but I have a quick question. Would units of steel legion be better off. It taking heavy weapons? It seems to me that they are better served Being mobile rapid fire and split types. Am I off base?

 

Well everyone brings heavy weapons, but no, Steel Legion actually benefit from taking Plasma guns and Lasguns. Dismounting a vehicle means you have moved, and so hit on a -1 with heavy weapons. They can mount up for an order after they shoot which helps a 40-55pt squad survive longer by putting them inside a 93-115pt chimera (so long as they didn't dismount that turn), but their doctrine buffs Rapid Fire weapons to rapid at 18in rather than 12.

[Guardsman Bob]

 

 

I'm new to the AM and I'm thinking about the steel legion. I haven't got the codex yet but I have a quick question. Would units of steel legion be better off. It taking heavy weapons? It seems to me that they are better served Being mobile rapid fire and split types. Am I off base?

 

Well everyone brings heavy weapons, but no, Steel Legion actually benefit from taking Plasma guns and Lasguns. Dismounting a vehicle means you have moved, and so hit on a -1 with heavy weapons. They can mount up for an order after they shoot which helps a 40-55pt squad survive longer by putting them inside a 93-115pt chimera (so long as they didn't dismount that turn), but their doctrine buffs Rapid Fire weapons to rapid at 18in rather than 12.

Just gonna emphasize the really important part. I’d like to suggest throwing a Bolter on the Sargents to maximize their advantages.

 

I’ve been considering running my guys as Steel Legion. In a high point game six Squads onboard six Chimeras sounds very pleasing. Not just for ease of deployment. Throwing down nothing but vehicles before turn one feels good.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Guardsman Bob

[sunspear]

Guardsman bob- that deployment sounds really nice!

I'm leaning toward steel legion. But I'm kinda on the fence with tallarns. Does the steel legion make better use of infantry than tallarn?

[Halfpint100]

Guardsman bob- that deployment sounds really nice!

I'm leaning toward steel legion. But I'm kinda on the fence with tallarns. Does the steel legion make better use of infantry than tallarn?

 

The question is: Do you want speed or longer ranged rapid fire?

[Altasmurf]

One thing, and it's very minor, is you could use the steel legion order after you shoot them and then jump into the chimera and fire the lasgun array from it.

 

As for which is better for mechanized, tallarn chimeraes would do the heavy lifting, steel legion the infantry will be doing the heavy lifting.

[PliskinAJ]

Meanwhile with the order all I'm thinking is my mech gun line. 

 

First turn they stay out of the transports, shoot. Second turn shoot and load up. Maximize my firepower now they have to be outside the transports. The downside is if you want your commanders going too you have to have a 1:1 company commander:squad ratio. Unless you use a CP for the chimera command stratagem. 

[HenricusTyranicus]

Meanwhile with the order all I'm thinking is my mech gun line. 

 

First turn they stay out of the transports, shoot. Second turn shoot and load up. Maximize my firepower now they have to be outside the transports. The downside is if you want your commanders going too you have to have a 1:1 company commander:squad ratio. Unless you use a CP for the chimera command stratagem. 

Or you could have a couple commanders stand behind the chimeras.

[Guardsman Bob]

I'm leaning toward steel legion. But I'm kinda on the fence with tallarns. Does the steel legion make better use of infantry than tallarn?

There’s nothing stopping you from using both other than Power Level/Point Limits.

 

If it really is a matter of picking one over the other then consider your style of play. Tallarians would be more immediate tactical verses the standoffish strategic Steel Legion.

 

I’m from the very old Warhammer mentality so my approach is somewhat chess like. So Steel Legion Squads would advance no closer than 16” in the front. A transport always included for either early game survival, a sudden push for an objective, or repositioning. Always trying to get the longview off my opponent.

 

Some people however are very suited for full contact sports. Tallaran Regiment Commanders can skip the Chimeras and just send in more bodies. If the situation changes their army has the flexability to react and do something new, or better yet fake someone out. I’m having trouble imagining Guard kiting an enemy but it’s going to be a possibility Saturday.

 

Whatever you do, do not get hung up on Squad Infantry being your source of damage. The changes in 8th only made it so Lasguns aren’t total junk. They guys have two jobs objectives and screening. Any kills is just a testament to the Commander maximizing his/her forces potential. With Steel Legion I’d try and avoid bringing excess Infantry. Currently I’ve been trying to maximize Command Points. Odds are soon I will downgrade from a Brigade Detachment to a Battalion (Steel Legion) plus Spearhead (maybe Tallaran). It’s a hard question, part of me just wants to keep the Brigade and go all Mordian since that’s what I bought back n the day.

[PliskinAJ]

...

Whatever you do, do not get hung up on Squad Infantry being your source of damage. The changes in 8th only made it so Lasguns aren’t total junk. They guys have two jobs objectives and screening. Any kills is just a testament to the Commander maximizing his/her forces potential. With Steel Legion I’d try and avoid bringing excess Infantry. Currently I’ve been trying to maximize Command Points. Odds are soon I will downgrade from a Brigade Detachment to a Battalion (Steel Legion) plus Spearhead (maybe Tallaran). It’s a hard question, part of me just wants to keep the Brigade and go all Mordian since that’s what I bought back n the day.

 

Infantry squads doing a lot of damage is never really expected. Point for point 3 marines cost 1 point less than a whole squad of guardsmen. That being said if you FRFSRF and manage to down 2-3 marines you are well on your way to making your points back.

 

That being said 7 lasguns (10-1sgt-1sw-1hw, remember hwt has 1 lasgun) from a line squad FRFSRF should drop 2-3 marines. If I can do rapid fire at ranges that gives the enemy a 9-10" charge likely giving me a second turn of FRFSRF I'll take it. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

First turn they stay out of the transports, shoot. Second turn shoot and load up. Maximize my firepower now they have to be outside the transports. The downside is if you want your commanders going too you have to have a 1:1 company commander:squad ratio. Unless you use a CP for the chimera command stratagem.

Only thing is that you'll lose the benefit of less deployments that normally comes with transports.

[PliskinAJ]

 

Only thing is that you'll lose the benefit of less deployments that normally comes with transports.

 

True, even with being fully mounted my list in the picture is 13 drops. I only go first about 1 out of 6 times. :)

[Guardsman Bob]

Infantry squads doing a lot of damage is never really expected. Point for point 3 marines cost 1 point less than a whole squad of guardsmen. That being said if you FRFSRF and manage to down 2-3 marines you are well on your way to making your points back.

 

That being said 7 lasguns (10-1sgt-1sw-1hw, remember hwt has 1 lasgun) from a line squad FRFSRF should drop 2-3 marines. If I can do rapid fire at ranges that gives the enemy a 9-10" charge likely giving me a second turn of FRFSRF I'll take it.

Amen to that!

 

Not since 3rd edition have I been using massed Infantry like this. A few years after it became clear the 3rd edition core rules were inherently harsh towards models with 5+/6+ saves it was always a game of how to beat the system. First with the original grenadiers doctrine, then conscripted gangers from the Armageddon book, finally conscripts (for me were so-so) and veteran troop choices.

 

So in a way I grossly underused the Volley Fire order. Now I can’t live without it.

 

My forces have drifted away from heavy weapons within Infantry squads. A Heavy Bolter was easy enough to get and had value with BS4 (on a Troop choice) but with the slashing on HWT costs I’m more than happy to separate them out. Another rapid fire 2 Lasgun? Yes, please, and thank you. Considering how inefficient SW are starting to feel they may be ditched next. MOAR lasguns! If SW are really needed I could just put them in two or three Command Squads with a Chimera.

[micahwc]

I'm leaning towards missile launchers for heavy weapon squads, and using either scions or ratlings for special weapon squads. Scions shoot better and have almost all the same special weapon choices, and can use either a troop slot for 2 special weapons or an elite for 4 (with required HQ for a tempestor prime). Scions also inherently have access to deep strike without needing a Valkyrie to do it.

 

This leaves special weapon squads with only 1 special weapon that scions can't take, the sniper rifle; however, Ratling snipers take the same elite slot and have more special rules related to sniping.

 

 

 

As an aside, I think the Gryphone chimera with heavy bolters is sweet and will be a mainstay. I'm thinking about ordering three chimeras and some magnets to get creative so I can run them as either Gryphone chimeras, regular chimeras, salamander scouts, and/or hellhounds.

 

I really wish GW would give us some more chimera chassis variants, like some of the old Epic versions. Armageddon is frequently at war and is one of the largest producers of chimera chassis, I could easily see them equipping some as tank destroyers, mobile gun platforms, etc. Throw a predator autocannon in a chimera turret and reduce the carrying capacity to 10, or give us the Epic version that has a bunch of Hunter Killer missiles, put a Taurox Prime punisher turret on one for dedicated anti-ork hoards, etc.