Movement through Ruins, again

[Feral_80]

Guys, sorry but I still don't get this. It's frustrating that GW has not addressed such an obvious issue more clearly from the beginning, it should have been noted if someone had bothered to rtfm before printing it.

 

So, infantry moving in 'Ruins' terrain.

 

1. General Movement rule states (p. 3 Battle Primer / 178 Rulebook):

 

[A model] cannot be moved through other models or through terrain features such as walls, but can be moved vertically in order to climb or traverse any scenery.

 

2. Battlefield terrain rule, 'Ruins' section states (p. 249 Rulebook):

 

INFANTRY are assumed to be able to scale walls and traverse through windows, doors and portals readily. These models can therefore move through the floors and walls of a ruin without further impediment.

 

3. One of the many FAQ files, 'Stepping into a new edition of WH40k' (p. 1, why in Hell did they spread FAQs in three different files is far beyond my understanding):

 

Q: How do vertical distances work for movement

and measurements?

A: All distances are measured in three dimensions, so if

a unit moves over a hill or scales a wall, the horizontal

distance and vertical distance combined cannot exceed

its Movement characteristic. This means that in order

to traverse across an obstacle, you must move up to the

top of that obstacle, move across the top of it, then move

down it.

 

So, combining 1+2+3, what is your conclusion? Does that "without further impediment" ("further" to what btw?) mean that infantry can move through ruins without actually needing any door/window/hole, and that they simply teleport through walls without any need to detract inches from their movement to climb up/down solid walls? Or, does it simply mean that, contrary to practically all other units, they CAN enter ruins and move there, accoding to rules 1 and 3? Or, something else that I am missing?

 

And, incidentally, does the above mean that a non-flying Vehicle with 12" Movement can 'climb' up a solid wall 4" tall, climb down for another 4", and then has 4" left to position itself on the other side (assuming there is enough place)?

 

Thanks

 

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by Feral_80

[Styx666]

I don't have an answer for you. But I agree that the rules need to be at least double the current page count to actually work properly. I get the feeling that this is a beta...

And thanks to this post, I'm so gonna go over a wall with a Rhino in my next game :)
 

[Eddie Orlock]

[W]hat is your conclusion?

Well, first I'll note that ruins are an 'advanced' rule and can thus be toggled on or off before the game by agreement of the players. You really should be doing the 5-min warm-up agreement on game definitions anyway. If you're having a tough time with this particular rule you might just play without it?

Does that "without further impediment" ("further" to what btw?) mean that infantry can move through ruins without actually needing any door/window/hole, and that they simply teleport through walls without any need to detract inches from their movement to climb up/down solid walls?

It reads here like your issue is related to narrative perception rather than the rules. It might help to imagine that when fighting in an urban environment your dudes are equipped with some mixture of breeching charges and las-cutters to mouse-hole the walls and make their own doors as needed? From an implementation standpoint, yes. Your models are just bursting through the ruins as though they weren't there.

...And, incidentally, does the above mean that a non-flying Vehicle with 12" Movement can 'climb' up a solid wall 4" tall, climb down for another 4", and then has 4" left to position itself on the other side (assuming there is enough place)?

Mostly correct, but your tank would have to translate sideways on top of the wall far enough that just driving straight down the other side wouldn't result in the wall phasing through the tank.

[Feral_80]

I can do all narrative efforts and pre-gaming warm-up in the world, but I cannot conceive that the rules are unclear and need to be agreed upon in a game in which 50-80% of the movement on almost every damn table happens in ruins.

 

I assume tournament organizers and players do not agree 5 minutes in advance, nor have I seen any 'official' clarification about such important rules. Isn't there a sort of more or less shared consensus within the player community? It seems crazy.

[Eddie Orlock]

Isn't there a sort of more or less shared consensus within the player community?

 

...Does that "without further impediment" ("further" to what btw?) mean that infantry can move through ruins ... without any need to detract inches from their movement to climb up/down solid walls?

... From an implementation standpoint, yes. Your models are just bursting through the ruins as though they weren't there.

 

[TheWolfLord]

To me it seems pretty easy to work out.

 

Models cannot move through walls unless the walls are in a ruin when they have permission to move through the wall normally.

 

If you accept only ruined walls can be moved through the rules for scaling a wall are also easy to follow.

[Feral_80]

So, are you telling me that an infantry unit can just traverse with no penalties a 20" tall solid wall that is part of a ruin, but it will be slowed down by a 0,5" tall wall that is considered a barricade?

 

I wouldn't exactly consider this intuitive nor 'easy' to work out, but let's try it.

 

Hopefully next year they GW print the real rulebook.

[TheWolfLord]

So, are you telling me that an infantry unit can just traverse with no penalties a 20" tall solid wall that is part of a ruin, but it will be slowed down by a 0,5" tall wall that is considered a barricade?

 

I wouldn't exactly consider this intuitive nor 'easy' to work out, but let's try it.

 

Hopefully next year they GW print the real rulebook.

You have to measure up a wall. A 40" detour is a pretty big penalty.

It sounds like you're more interested in trying to force the rules to make sense to you rather just understanding what the rules allow.

[Kastor Krieg]

So, are you telling me that an infantry unit can just traverse with no penalties a 20" tall solid wall that is part of a ruin, but it will be slowed down by a 0,5" tall wall that is considered a barricade?

 

I wouldn't exactly consider this intuitive nor 'easy' to work out, but let's try it.

Ruin walls are assumed to be full of holes you can go THROUGH or use for climbing to go OVER. Other walls like bunkers, buildings, reinforced positions either are solid and smooth enough not to allow climbing / passing through (or ramming through if you're a posthuman behemoth in power armour!) or are stationary obstacles which have non-modelled implements which make crossing them impossible (monofilament razor wire, minefields, etc.) even despite their meager size.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Kastor Krieg