Death guard in the competive scene?

[Kimbo]

Hi everyone. I would first like to thank everyone on this forum for all The replies to the previous posts ive put up!

 

I recently got about 1200p painted of death guard and have played 2x 1000p games...but i want to try the more competitive scene.

 

- What are the cheese combos you guys have found so far from the codex/Stratagems and so on?

 

- how do you kit out your PM'S /how many in a squad for the most effectiveness? In rhinos or just walking?

 

- any do's or don't that i really should know about?

 

- Best / worst units in your opinion?

 

- mortarion, auto include for a competitive list or not?

 

 

Alot of questions...but this is the things im thinking about going up for the bigger and meaner 40k scene!

 

I will try my DG in the next tournament!so i want to go really mean.

[Kimbo]

OH and also..If you like...please post your own 2k lists that you found working really good!

[Wayniac]

I think the main way to to DG competitively is, sadly, to spam poxwalkers and/or cultists and/or take allied CSM for Warptime nonsense, or just take Morty/Magnus/Knights.  The army as a whole doesn't seem to be very competitive outside of the really fringe spammy type builds while minimizing actual Death Guard models.

[the jeske]

mono DG won't work. pox+FW dudes+knights+smite spam is ok. Plus skew should work if you have ungodly luck with match ups[or your playing in a smaller event and know everyone who plays], DP+mort+smite spam with wyverns could roll some smaller events hard.

 

am not sure PMs are going to be used in tournament lists, but rhinos are important PMs are slow and they are not that resilient to be able to weather fire incoming from tournament lists.

 

Don't spam PMs, don't take shrouds. don't try to make them melee, DG are too slow for that. Morty is tough, but he is not tough enough to fly in front of a tournament army and survive a turn of shoting alone.

 

Mort? poxwalkers are ok. As is the armor DP, but in general DG does not have some "wins on its own" units.

 

Depends what you consider a DG army. But he is ok.

[Kimbo]

I think the main way to to DG competitively is, sadly, to spam poxwalkers and/or cultists and/or take allied CSM for Warptime nonsense, or just take Morty/Magnus/Knights. The army as a whole doesn't seem to be very competitive outside of the really fringe spammy type builds while minimizing actual Death Guard models.

Do you have an example list with pox spam?

mono DG won't work. pox+FW dudes+knights+smite spam is ok. Plus skew should work if you have ungodly luck with match ups[or your playing in a smaller event and know everyone who plays], DP+mort+smite spam with wyverns could roll some smaller events hard.

 

am not sure PMs are going to be used in tournament lists, but rhinos are important PMs are slow and they are not that resilient to be able to weather fire incoming from tournament lists.

 

Don't spam PMs, don't take shrouds. don't try to make them melee, DG are too slow for that. Morty is tough, but he is not tough enough to fly in front of a tournament army and survive a turn of shoting alone.

 

Mort? poxwalkers are ok. As is the armor DP, but in general DG does not have some "wins on its own" units.

 

Depends what you consider a DG army. But he is ok.

Got any 2k lists that might work?

Edited October 3, 2017 by Kimbo

[Isolia]

I'm toying around with a simple list with :

 

DP with wings and talons

Typhus

 

3 units of 7 marines with 1 blight launcher, each in a rhino

20 pox

 

Foul blightspawn (we'll see if he stays)

 

2 drones (spitters and heavy blight launcher)

Myphitic hauler

 

Helbrute.(reaper /fist)

Predator (autocannon / lascannons)

 

That's about 2k points, give or take a plasma gun.

Subject to change of course.

 

The idea is both to deliver the marines rather safely while harassing with the drones, then when the rhinos are empty use them to ram infantry to lock them. Using the autoexplode stratagem is key for more efficiency, it works well on rhinos that cause d6 mortal wounds (rather than just 1 on drones) :)

 

Drones and hauler explode on 4+ so they can also be of use when nearing the end.

 

Poxwalkers can be used to screen in front, or camp objective. With typhus babysitting them and casting buffs, the DP can get where needed for support.

 

I know, it needs tweaking, the blightspawn is questionable though it gives survivability for a non-assault bunch of marines , but it could mean some special weapons on champions for example instead. The Biologus could be swapped in for more grenade power, then using the stratagem to throw all grenades from a unit. Works better with a 10man squad then.

 

I'm still torn on the myphitic blight slug, I like the reliable profile and bonus cover, but the weapons load out is odd.

 

One of the drones could be a fleshmower one since there is quite some dakka behind to take care of threats. But I like the splitters, 2d6 then charge, then disengage and fire again, pretty neat.

 

Perhaps the helbrute could be dual dakka, too.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Isolia

[hopkins]

FW dudes

wyverns

Please elaborate my spiritual liege

 

Necrosius any good for increased magic output and defense?

[the jeske]

you take some wyverns, smite spam dudes, use poxwalkers as screen and magnus/morty as fire focus that kills stuff. It is more or less the mirror of imperial soup lists. Mechanicly I find them[the chaos ones]  weaker, but for how they play you can check any imperial battle raptorts. As smite spam lists go, I don't think I have to say  that FW units are kind of a not balanced rules/points wise in 8th ed. By the way am not saying that smite spam is the end of all lists, but it is good, and with wyverns+good screen it can work ok.

[1000 Sons]

current list I am playing with.

 

typhus

chaos lord

 

pox walkers 20

pox walkers 20

pox walkers 13

 

deathshroud 3

 

drone with spitters

drone with spitters

 

Magnus

 

Mortarion

 

Magnus does his thing, warptime, weaver, smite and charge something

mortarion ges halfway up the board and typhus and the deathshroud are 3" infront to protect him.  turn 2 they will hopefully be in the mix

the drones are moving up as well, doing there usual flamer work

the walkers and lord roam around for objectives.

 

Painting up some malefic lords that will hopefully replace the lord.  I am hoping that typhus and the deathshroud will be a bit of a sleeper powerhouse team.  Typhus might have to go for and make room for a deamon prince with wings and relic.

[Bulwyf]

My 2k list on the death guard army list forum has done well for me. I made a few changes to it that I probably need to update but it works. I want to try and fit in my FW levi with siege claw/grav bombard in there somewhere.

[Khar'vros the Crazed]

Im so glad I dont play competitive 40k, everything Jeske suggested sounds boring and restrictive to me.

 

Im curious, is baseline dg really so terrible? I mean can you really say you're playing dg if you dont actually use dg in your list?

[Panzer]

Im so glad I dont play competitive 40k, everything Jeske suggested sounds boring and restrictive to me.

 

That's why I usually just ignore his posts unless it's really about how competetive a specific unit or loadout is. ^^

[Khar'vros the Crazed]

Lol same...Ive had a lot of good luck with plague marines myself, but then I seldomly play less the 2k points, usually 3k plus.

[MoGuy]

What the heck?! I think DG is in a really good position right now! Plague Marines are solid troop choices and we have so many synergies that I am 100% certain I could win local tournaments with pure DG. Yes if you play at big events you simply won't win against the other hardcore cheese lists unless yours is equally cheesy. However, normal competitive lists would be geared towards greater efficiency than normal tac lists. For example using MSU Plague Marines and the Typhus + Poxwalker + Cultists combos for a growing S5 T5 blob etc.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Im so glad I dont play competitive 40k, everything Jeske suggested sounds boring and restrictive to me.

 

Im curious, is baseline dg really so terrible? I mean can you really say you're playing dg if you dont actually use dg in your list?

Really I think it depends. Unless it's a higher tier army IMO it's hard to answer the question is X army competitive. It's much easier to sift through the DG codex and find the most competitive units and come up with tactics on how to build a competitive list with them. Unfortunately most of those lists are going to be boring and restrictive like mentioned.

 

The thing I'm most disappointed with isn't the expensive and elite feel it's the fact that we have so many "characters" and like units that do nothing to buff the rest of the Army... DG have some pretty sweet stratagems but to take advantage of them you almost have to have a Brigade detachment or get really lucky with tallyman (which should happen considering 7 is the most frequently rolled number on 2D6). 

 

How well do you think the Plagueburst is going to work in a competitive environment? 

[Khar'vros the Crazed]

I play against eldar more often then not. I've had great luck with plague marines. A unit of 7 with a power fist charged a wrath knight, held it for 5 turns and killed it.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Disclaimer... I haven't played with my DG yet as I'm still building up my army. After analyzing their dataslate and watching them on battle reports I'm convinced the internet "experts" really underrate them. They are pricey but I think they're solid. 

 

Is there a restriction on how many Tallyman can be included in a detachment/army. I looked over the dataslate and it doesn't appear there is anything saying "only one" maybe be included? Has the FAQ mentioned anything about each Tallyman unit allowing 2D6 to be rolled or is it only ever one roll of 2D6 to retain command points? 

Edited October 4, 2017 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Warsmith Annüss]

The Seven-fold Chant rule says "any Tallymen on the battlefield". To me that says one roll.

[Plaguecaster]

 

FW dudes

wyverns

Please elaborate my spiritual liege

 

Necrosius any good for increased magic output and defense?

Necrosius is crazy good for 10pts more than a standard Plague caster he gets a 4+ inv save can cast 3 powers instead of 2 as well as deny 2 enemy powers, plus for poxwalkers they can re roll all 1s for Disgustingly Resilence within 6 Edited October 4, 2017 by Plaguecaster

[SkimaskMohawk]

I had a 2000 point list a while back that almost turned me off of 8th. Don't know how itd do against the really min maxed stuff, or how much more it could be optomized but it went something like:

 

Typhus

Necrosius

Chaos Lord

 

10 Pox Walkers

10 Pox Walkers

20 Pox Walkers

 

Scorpius

Scorpius

 

Bloat Drone with flamers

Bloat Drone with flamers

 

Cerberus

 

Chaos Lord buffs the tanks, cultists bubble wrap, typhus and bro support them. Cerberus guarantee one-shots anything not a primarch, scorpii kill their artillery

[1000 Sons]

Im so glad I dont play competitive 40k, everything Jeske suggested sounds boring and restrictive to me.

Im curious, is baseline dg really so terrible? I mean can you really say you're playing dg if you dont actually use dg in your list?

I have only recently started to play, and look at competitive lists, and it is a very different game when you play chaos or Imperium. It is called chaos/imperial soup, take the best, or most points efficient units and spam it. The one positive thing about these lists is that GW is starting to pay attention to these big tournaments and have tinkered with some rules in response to what they find broken.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Do you guys think Hellforged Contemptors are worth taking a look at for inclusion in a competitive list? For a little over 40 pts more than a standard helbrute you gain an invuln save, the chance to heal wounds in CC, superior WS/BS, and arguably better wargear options. I'd like to take 2... one equiped with Deathclaw/chainclaw and x2 soul burners and the other equipped with x2 butcher cannons. The Butcher cannons special rules is pretty cool. Any unit that has a model slain by shots fired from a butcher cannon must subtract 2 from their leadership. If you're shooting that weapon at the same unit Plagueburst crawlers are shooting at you could really wreck havoc when it comes to the morale phase. Unfortunately those two dreadnoughts come out to 441 pts :( 

[SkimaskMohawk]

In most competitive lists, morale doesn't matter at all. Either the squads are small enough where critical casualties only result in a -1, or they flat out ignore it / modifiers.

 

Generally the double grav leviathans are solid investments since the guns are one of the only in the game that scale up properly. Against 30 conscripts/orks/cultists your get 14 d3 shots.

[misterkho]

I'm taking my deathguard to a 2k tournament myself this year and have some trouble building a solid list.

Right now i'm playing around with 3 ideas.

 

1: Droppod assault

I'm taking a charybdis dropped filling it with 3X 5 plaguemarines(3 plasma guns maybe a flail as well), necrosius, blightspawn and a  malefic lord.

Daemonprince is going to fly up to them to for a preroll of 1's, and following them up is a mix off hell brutes for fire support and 2 drones to keep the flanks clear. And then summoning a bunch of daemons where needed. 

It's risky but those 9 plasma guns with rapid-fire 18" could do some serious hurt and the kharybdiss has a nast close combat attack which could take out any big threats. It also the only tactic i can come up with which gives us some kind of mobility..

 

2: the horde

This has already been discussed but it's a swarm of pox walkers and cultists combining with the specific stratagems. combine this with 2 units of blight lords terminators, typhus, necrosiis and supporting brutes (or haulers) and you have a army which can pack a lot of punch,...it's just so terrible slow...i can imagine an optimized army of drukharii tearing it apart piece by piece.

 

3: barrage

I'm thinking hell brutes, plague crawlers and a mix of haulers and drones being screened by cultists. throw in some malefic lords and chaos lords and just keep shooting everything apart from your deployment zone..

[Wayniac]

Im so glad I dont play competitive 40k, everything Jeske suggested sounds boring and restrictive to me.

 

Im curious, is baseline dg really so terrible? I mean can you really say you're playing dg if you dont actually use dg in your list?

 

From seeing the competitive type lists, yes absolutely.  I've seen "Death Guard" that was Mortarion + Magnus + Knights.

 

But I agree.  This is not how 40k was intended to be played.  So I have made a conscious decision that, if I keep with 40k (this was a big reason I stopped playing for 15 years), I'm not going to focus on this competitive stuff.  There aren't any tournaments around my area anyways, and none of "that type" of player who min-maxes to the extreme.  So I am going to play plague marines, in lists that I think will be effective but not overpowering cheese, and see what happens.  That's IMHO the best way:  You don't have to play absolute trash lists, but also don't have to cheese out to the extreme to where you're just spamming the "best" units and theorycrafting/mathhammering everything.  There is, IMNSHO, a middle ground where you can bring strong lists that also aren't just spamming the good stuff.