Codex Devil Dog

[olcottr]

Is the 15 pt drop in pts for the melta cannon enough to convince you to field a Devil Dog?

[Halfpint100]

Only for tallarn. To remove the -1 to hit

[Feral_80]

It seems that the melta cannon is now an assault weapon. That changes everything...

[HenricusTyranicus]

It seems that the melta cannon is now an assault weapon. That changes everything...

Sign me up. Where have people seen the complete profile anyway?

[WarriorFish]

That's the change required to make me interested...

[Feral_80]

I think Frontline Gaming has. They pretty much published a good part of the codex already.

 

Of course it is not 100% reliable, but it would make much sense, and bring back Devil Dogs to a usable status - especially as Tallarn.

 

Passionate advice: spoilers are bad. Avoid looking for further. You'll thank me once the codex is out, as you'll better enjoy the surprises. It's really worth it to wait a few more days. I stopped reading stuff.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Feral_80

[CoffeeGrunt]

Oooooh-wee, if those rumours are true then I'm gunna make a whole load more Ghost Dogs!

[BurntheHeretic]

´´Catachan Devil Dogs´´ would definitely become interesting if the Melta Cannon becomes assault.  We will see soon.. 

[narcolepticltd]

with the points reduction on the melta cannon, you can field it for the same price as a regular (inferno cannon) flavor too... the banewolf still suffers from lack of range though.

 

is the new inferno cannon profile 2d6 shots or 2d6 discard lowest? ap -2 now and 1 damage instead of ap -1 and 2 damage right?

[gunnyogrady]

with the points reduction on the melta cannon, you can field it for the same price as a regular (inferno cannon) flavor too... the banewolf still suffers from lack of range though.

 

is the new inferno cannon profile 2d6 shots or 2d6 discard lowest? ap -2 now and 1 damage instead of ap -1 and 2 damage right?

I believe it's 2D6 shots, not 2D6 discard lowest, and I know it's 1 damage. I'm not sure on the ap -1 or -2.

[HenricusTyranicus]

 

with the points reduction on the melta cannon, you can field it for the same price as a regular (inferno cannon) flavor too... the banewolf still suffers from lack of range though.

 

is the new inferno cannon profile 2d6 shots or 2d6 discard lowest? ap -2 now and 1 damage instead of ap -1 and 2 damage right?

I believe it's 2D6 shots, not 2D6 discard lowest, and I know it's 1 damage. I'm not sure on the ap -1 or -2.

 

Ap -1 still.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Makes it more of an Infantry killer but less of an elite or light vehicle killer, which makes sense.

[narcolepticltd]

Makes it more of an Infantry killer but less of an elite or light vehicle killer, which makes sense.

 

Still good at killing flyers though probably :D 

[narcolepticltd]

I completely missed this in the index datasheet till just now, but the hellhound blows up on a 4+ instead of a 6 if reduced to 0 :) 

[HenricusTyranicus]

Makes it more of an Infantry killer but less of an elite or light vehicle killer, which makes sense.

Why so? The average wounds of 2d6 d1 should equal the average wounds of d6 d2, should it not?

[narcolepticltd]

 

Makes it more of an Infantry killer but less of an elite or light vehicle killer, which makes sense.

Why so? The average wounds of 2d6 d1 should equal the average wounds of d6 d2, should it not?

 

 

I'm no math hammer professor, but I feel like just potential in increased volume may even bring it up a notch with the new profile... just because it's more chances to get through. 

[HenricusTyranicus]

Average wounds vs 3+ save tank, old vs new profile

Old: 3.5 hit, 1.16 wound, 0.58 get through, two damage takes it back up to 1.16.

New: 7 hit, 2.333 wound, 1.16 get through.

So in other words, on average this new profile is strictly better, because it can take anti infantry duty far better.

Edited October 4, 2017 by HenricusTyranicus

[OnboardG1]

 

 

Makes it more of an Infantry killer but less of an elite or light vehicle killer, which makes sense.

Why so? The average wounds of 2d6 d1 should equal the average wounds of d6 d2, should it not?

 

 

I'm no math hammer professor, but I feel like just potential in increased volume may even bring it up a notch with the new profile... just because it's more chances to get through. 

 

 

The average amount of wounds should be flat compared to the last iteration (d6 avg is 3.5*2 =7, 2d6 average = 7). However it's a little more complex than pure averages as the poster above points out. It's definitely better against single wound models since your maximum damage total is 12 rather than 6. You're never wasting damage. Your minimum hits also goes up too which is going to have a positive effect against hordes. However your damage against multi wound models is more complex. Lets assume the model has a 4+ save (shooting a primaris marine with the inferno cannon). You have a 50% chance to fail each single wound which in the index would kill the model. In the new codex you have two saves at 1 damage each to make, which only has a 25% chance of failing both. So you're definitely getting more mileage out of sweeping hordes but you're not going to be shooting terminators off the board as easily. I'm not sure what stats the Chem Cannon has but it wouldn't surprise me if they'd made that D2 to differentiate roles from the Hellhound.

 

EDIT: As the poster above points out it's the same against stuff like tanks which have lots-o-wounds because of the volume of fire. The distribution is going to be different against elites though.

Edited October 4, 2017 by OnboardG1

[NatBrannigan]

The Melta cannon is now Assault? Nice! I'll hold off for now but if we ever get to the point where Rough Riders are just not usable any more I may now pick up 2 to fill Fast Attack slots. I've got enough anti infantry firepower in my army already so was never completely sold on Hellhounds, effective though they undoubtedly are.

 

Of course Scout Sentinels are still very cheap...

[duz_]

I completely missed this in the index datasheet till just now, but the hellhound blows up on a 4+ instead of a 6 if reduced to 0 :)

Yup! I actually try and use that to my advantage where I can. Hellhound only only 2 wounds left? Go charge that unit that will kill you so I can blow you up! :D

 

I think the revised stats are better. Gives more versatility, ie can still hurt multiwounds units, but gains anti horde too. The single wounds also means even with multi wound units youre not losing any damage output. :)

 

Im glad at least one of the other variants got a buff too. Did they increase the number of shots?

[WarriorFish]

It's a nice throwback to the old rules, and as we've discussed elsewhere a sneaky use for Command Points as you fish for that 4+ - much to your opponent's dismay :lol:

[Plasmablasts]

2d6 shots also gives you more consistent shooting: extreme results are less likely. On the downside, there's only a 1 in 36 chance of rolling 12 shots; on the upside, the same is true for rolling 2 shots (and you can't roll 1).

[CoffeeGrunt]

I meant that the current iteration of the Hellhound feels more like it's made for hunting W2 Infantry rather than Hordes, but now it's definitely more of a horde killer while still being effective against elite units.

[Guardsman Bob]

The Melta cannon is now Assault? Nice! I'll hold off for now but if we ever get to the point where Rough Riders are just not usable any more I may now pick up 2 to fill Fast Attack slots. I've got enough anti infantry firepower in my army already so was never completely sold on Hellhounds, effective though they undoubtedly are.

 

Of course Scout Sentinels are still very cheap...

Melta Cannn is going heavy -> assault. Multi Melta is still heavy. Tragically we won’t be seeing swarms of Tellarn Semtinels with Mult Melta.

 

I think the biggest take-away from this is we are getting serious game developement. In the past it was routine for problems or junk status to be left unchanged or even reviewed. It took GW three Guard codexes to even introduce a straight up Troop choice that was worth taking after the reset in 3rd.

 

Edit: My bad there are no sentinels that can talk multi-meltas.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Guardsman Bob

[Halfpint100]

Drop sentinels from forgeworld can take multi-meltas