gunnyogrady Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Hey folks! Just wanted some general community feedback, sorry if this is the wrong forum. (tl;dr at bottom) I'm thinking about building/developing a gaming table for 40k players (and, I suppose, tabletop wargamers in general). One idea that really excites me is building a table with a built in rear projector that can project the battlefield surface onto the tabletop from underneath. If you could have the perfect gaming table, for whatever games you play but specifically geared towards 40k, what would it have? Cup holders? Projector tabletop? Is it better for it to look nice so it can be out all the time, or be modular so it can go away when you don't need it? Would it have storage built in for terrain/models? tl;dr Basically, what would be the coolest gaming table ever? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovemberIX Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'm of two minds on this topic, the first being that a table is merely the platform to put your tiles/terrain on, if it has shelves and a place to put your books, then it's just about perfect. But then there's the blue sky thinking that I think this topic is really about. What about integrated power/induction ports for terrain electrics, drop down field of play so dice don't go flying off, or an integrated place to roll dice off the field of play. Pull out's for places to put books, dice, tablets, or phones would be nice. Built in USB to charge said devices too. An integrated media system could be fun, either for music or to pipe in ambient battle sounds. Fog dispersal nozzles/ports could be pretty trick too, get that fog of war effect, or make something look extra wrecked. A real blue sky idea would be to use RFID tracking to make some sort of Augmented Reality display, use that on a projector table to project firing arcs and weapons traces, or use it afterward to make easy battle report graphics. Admittedly, a lot of these ideas are better implemented as a terrain tile and table system that work in concert to make an interesting play surface. I will say though, me personally, I never want cup holders around my gaming table, it encourages bringing food or drink to the play surface, and it's already crowded enough there. walter h and gunnyogrady 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4902730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) One of my favorite gaming tables I have played on had sliding shelves below the table top. Each shelf was about 8" below the table top with the back edge about 12" back. The front hand out about 6". The shelves were on drawer slides so you could pull the out to put all your models, dice and books on them and slide them back in during play. 4 Shelves on each side. Projected ground would be cool but you will still need 3D terrain. If you also play DnD or other RP games you would get more use out of it. Battle tech would be sweet, too. If you want to throw big money at it, try an 84" TV as the table top. They are typically around 75" X 45" which should be close enough to 6' X 4' to work. [ETA] Off topic, but we used to play scenarios sort of like the falling space battle debris. When you finished a beer you could place the can as terrain. Edited October 4, 2017 by Jacinda gunnyogrady 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4902758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 1st, very cool. My closest immediate meta of a few 40k friends also play D&D together in a fashion office. We do use a projector for maps, keeping track of stuff, etc. 2nd, let me share some experience working with the original Microsoft Surface table (NOT tablet, not a typo), because it's relevant to your interests. Today, we think of Microsoft Surface as their slates/tablets, but about a decade ago the original namesake was a coffee table, with a projector and sensors underneath its table surface. There's lessons learned I'll share here. Most thought it was a huge touchscreen, but it was in essence exactly what you're planning: a table with a projector under it, projecting "in reverse" so that it shows up properly on the table; please keep that in mind with back-projections. Then the sensor was actually a series of cameras also under the table. Those cameras were very similar in concept to the Xbox 360's/One's Kinect motion sensor. At the time they just called it Project Natal. Now some stuff I think you probably already suspect, but I'll go right out and say it. 1. It Got Hot - when you're constantly projecting, it's gonna get hot like a Plasmagun. New mini-projectors probably mitigate that, but it's VERY uncomfortable without a room with extreme air conditioning. What we used to do in a demo with this was we set up the Surface table in a smaller room and turn down the temperature to offset the heat generated by the table. The heat was partly from the computer built into the table, but also from the projector, PLUS the projection onto the table surface itself. Which brings us to the next point... 2. The Table Surface Itself Was a Cool Material - both literally and figuratively. For something that constantly had something lighting it very brightly (and it had to, for the image to go through it), it was actually quite cool to the touch. But more to the point, keep in mind you have to have something thin enough for light to shine through from beneath, yet strong enough to hold all the stuff people bring, because it won't just be their models, it might be their laptops and drinks and army cases. Worse, they'll probably lean their full weight on it. I'm sure there's plastics that do this, but keep in mind it can't warp. Since you're building this, you might want to...I dunno, do a stress test or something. Or ask an expert, unless you might be the expert, sounds like you're really good with DIY. 3. A Mouse to Control It is Perfectly Fine - despite having those motion sensor cameras, a lot of times we whipped out a mouse to control stuff; it was just easier. No need to think about advanced cameras, just use a mouse. It also lets you interact with the table in the middle of a game because... 4. Powerpoint probably can make for fancy battlefield animations - I liked what you said about battlefield animations. It's also easy to put animations on it for explosions on like dynamic battlefield effects, like artillery shells hitting the sides of the table (which is why we fight in the 6'x4' space, etc.) I mention this because sometimes, for early prototype/proof-of-concept demos on the Microsoft Surface, instead of writing an application we just put together a demo with Powerpoint. Every time we interacted with the table, its motion sensor registered it as a click, moving to the next "slide" or animation which was just some scripted thing I cobbled together in Powerpoint. Usually these were better than actual demonstrations with an application because it was much more reliable. I tell you all this because, once you built the table, you've done the hard part; instead of using a static image, creating a dynamic battlefield with night/day cycles, shells falling all over the place, bullets bouncing on terrain, that's the easy and fun part. Like if I was doing a fog effect, I'd do it on the battlefield projection, like a fog overlay instead of using dry ice (though that's cool too) I'm of two minds on this topic, the first being that a table is merely the platform to put your tiles/terrain on, if it has shelves and a place to put your books, then it's just about perfect. But then there's the blue sky thinking that I think this topic is really about. What about integrated power/induction ports for terrain electrics, drop down field of play so dice don't go flying off, or an integrated place to roll dice off the field of play. Pull out's for places to put books, dice, tablets, or phones would be nice. Built in USB to charge said devices too. An integrated media system could be fun, either for music or to pipe in ambient battle sounds. Fog dispersal nozzles/ports could be pretty trick too, get that fog of war effect, or make something look extra wrecked. A real blue sky idea would be to use RFID tracking to make some sort of Augmented Reality display, use that on a projector table to project firing arcs and weapons traces, or use it afterward to make easy battle report graphics. Admittedly, a lot of these ideas are better implemented as a terrain tile and table system that work in concert to make an interesting play surface. I will say though, me personally, I never want cup holders around my gaming table, it encourages bringing food or drink to the play surface, and it's already crowded enough there. 5. Chargers for our phones and tablets will be what players appreciate most (aside from awesome projections) - all our army lists are like on PDFs or Excels or Battlescribe on my phone/slate/etc. This issue comes up so often, we can't read a rule because the guy who bought the rulebook on his iPad is running low on power. Great idea and easy to do. Seriously, you just need a place to put a power bar and a hole for wires, like an office desk. 6. Speakers actually cause vibrations...which was annoying on the Microsoft Surface coffee table but great for a battlefield - it'd be like the pounding of artillery shells. Working on that surface, if you had music on and you were sitting by it or resting on it, it's constantly shaking a bit. Actually if you really dropped the bass with some serious wub-wub, miniatures can fall over...which would be kinda cool. But now that I mention it probably something worth keeping in mind, it's like sonic wobbly base syndrome. Probably a good idea and easy to do. 7. There's arcade games where you place collectible cards on the arcade machine surface, and it'll place them correspondingly in the video game itself - there's a Three Kingdoms wargame and I think a football game that uses this technology. You buy these collectible cards representing types of troops or football players. Then you lay it out this arcade game machine table, drawn like a battlefield or a football field. On the screen, you'll see those units appear like where you placed them. Worth looking at if you want to pursue the RFID idea. It also sensed motion, so these players would move the cards up the battlefield, and then kinda stab them forward. It wasn't camera based, I know there's something like that on the Playstation with cameras; I think the table itself was the sensor. It's hilarious to watch. I don't remember what those machines were called, but they were Japanese. TL;DR - heat, the table surface, consider more than static images (you prolly already have) you can manipulate with a mouse maybe, chargers, maybe speakers, and perhaps try to find out about that collectible card + video game table for ideas. Lots of thoughts, but seriously, consider the basic things like heat and people putting their full weight on the table, even/especially if you tell them not to. Safety 1st. Edited October 4, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards walter h and gunnyogrady 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4902806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnyogrady Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 Wow, thank you guys for the quality responses! @NovemberIX Some really boss ideas re: speakers, storage, dice-rolling, and RFID. I also hadn't thought about some kind of projector/electronic tabletop tiles, either. Not sure how I would implement, but worth pondering. I agree on the cup holders. @Jacinda Drawers will be a must, especially to keep the actually tabletop free of clutter. @Not 1 Step Backwards Wow wow wow, thank you for the thorough feedback and response! I am definitely going to see if I can find any info on that original coffee table, I hadn't seen that in any of my research so far. I think you are right on, re: heat and stability. My solution for the first might be to use a small projector with an added auxiliary fan. For stability, I can mount the tabletop screen into a sturdy wooden frame (set a half-inch down from the wooden edge/lip for dice rolling), and mount drawers, slide-out cutting-board style surfaces, and access points down through the table to a power source for USB, etc. If you don't mind my asking a couple questions: how was the resolution on the coffee table screen, and how large was it? Could you still see it reasonably well in a bright room? If you filmed people playing on it, do you suppose the image would be clear on film? Thank you guys again! N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4902837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 GreetingsMy local shop was planning on mounting projectors above the main table for showing objectives, templates, etc - until 8th came along.Something like that is still going to be done eventually, though. There will be sound effects and a painted (and possibly modelled) backdrop too, hopefully. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I found out the Microsoft Surface coffee table has since been re-branded as "Microsoft Pixelsense", to facilitate research. Later ones had touchscreens, but the one I used was a back-lit projection thing, which I still think is the absolute best way to do it because costs, heat, safety, and the fact people WILL spill drinks on it, etc. I loved your questions because I can see you're past the hypothetical "would this be cool" phase to preparation & production. And I think my answers will help. @Not 1 Step Backwards Wow wow wow, thank you for the thorough feedback and response! I am definitely going to see if I can find any info on that original coffee table, I hadn't seen that in any of my research so far. I think you are right on, re: heat and stability. My solution for the first might be to use a small projector with an added auxiliary fan. For stability, I can mount the tabletop screen into a sturdy wooden frame (set a half-inch down from the wooden edge/lip for dice rolling), and mount drawers, slide-out cutting-board style surfaces, and access points down through the table to a power source for USB, etc. If you don't mind my asking a couple questions: how was the resolution on the coffee table screen, and how large was it? Could you still see it reasonably well in a bright room? If you filmed people playing on it, do you suppose the image would be clear on film? How large was it? It was only about 3.5 x 2.5 feet. It was coffee table size. I think (but am not certain) it was limited by the technology/costs of the back-lit projectors of that time. Knowing Microsoft, it would have loved to do a conference table version, if only for their own conference rooms. I think back-lit projectors have improved significantly in the last 10 years to allow 6 x 4 feet tables. And on that note... What was the resolution? Only 1024 x 800 (or 768)! It HAD a good graphics card, but to give a buffer room to the custom-developed apps (which always run slower not just because of the heat of the thing, but boutique apps were always less optimised thus slower, had memory leaks, etc.), it deliberately ran them at a lower resolution for performance issues. The kicker is: it did NOT matter much; that's a learning. That transparent table material, which was sturdy but still let the projector through, was always going to cause some loss in definition anyway, so you didn't need it at very high resolution. It still looked fine. And of course, again back-lit projector technology has advanced, but in case it matters you might not have to buy the most expensive hi-res one. How bright was it? Absolutely bright enough to see in a dark room AND a well-lit one, you can still see the stuff (and interact with it) even under direct sunlight, though at that point things can be a little hard to make out. That's a great question because, while demoing, we were wondering if we deliberately had to use our bodies to block overhead lights to make the demos go smoother. We did not; the technology was robust and accounted for stuff like how we wanted to put the table under the brightest spotlight to draw attention to it. Can you film people playing on it? You absolutely can, better than on a touchscreen in fact. It's that issue of filming something on a computer monitor versus on a projection, where the projection is better. It was a crowd-pleaser to be sure, an attention-grabber, so we featured it heavily. Very photogenic. It actually kinda irked me because I could tell the money was in mobile apps and Cloud-based solutions, but people were fascinated by a darn coffee-table. On the other hand, that same human impulse is GREAT for a The Hobby table. +++ I've been talking about heavy-duty engineering by Microsoft (whose R&D budget alone is greater than the entire GDP of the Bahamas), but I'm a real low-cost-max-impact kinda guy. I really see you needing only a few things, and from reading what you said and asked, you more than planned for them: - a good small back-lit projector, probably 16:9 ratio (rather than the 4:3 ratio we used), I'm sure they're much cheaper/better now - a strong project-able surface that is robust yet still lets light through, it will cause some loss in definition...this imho is the x-factor - robust table, you got this covered, I believe in your carpentry skills, I know it'll be hard work, but it's not an x-factor - place for all those USBs to power devices - digital maps that are really just a Powerpoint with animations and stuff, totally easy - probably a place for your laptop* and a long-cable mouse, could place the laptop on the floor and use the same hole as the USB cords for the mouse * there are those "media centre" PCs which are tiny boxes and used to go for like USD$400, but I think using a spare laptop's probably easier Listing these out, the trickiest part is actually that table surface itself. I really have no idea what Microsoft used. It was about a centimeter thick, some cloudy plastic. If you see a YouTube of it, you might be able to tell "oh this is just see-through polymer plastic number 12" or something, but I myself dunno. +++ Just a final point on the RFID idea. The Microsoft Surface coffee table Pixelsense did have an RFID-like gimmick. You will see it in video demos. You put an object on it, like your office smartcard, and it would project your employee information on it. EVERYONE thinks it was RFID. It was not. It worked BETTER than probably RFID, but it was a simpler concept. I'm guessing the difficulty was combining a RFID reading surface with the level of precision with a touchscreen/projectable surface. I don't know. I know other boutique software developers tried to create some fancy RFID solution, but I don't think it worked out. Maybe the technology has advanced to where it's good/cheap now. However, what we used at the time was that concept of motion sensor cameras under the table, that is looking up at the shadows on the surface. It recognised the shape of the shadows, which include (please note the last one): - fingers: it would even know which way you were pointing, because your finger's shadow on the surface looks like a meteor, with a trail that leads into your hand - "blobs": if it's a big object, it'll know that's just a thing. It'll ignore it UNLESS you tell it not to - "tags": this is the area of interest A "tag" is basically these stickers that come with the Pixelsense (and you can frankly print off your own). Microsoft basically supplied these stickers with black dots on a white background in a specific pattern, each individual. The stickers were about the shape and size of a Warhammer Fantasy square base. The camera will see that black dot pattern and recognise it as code, kinda more like a barcode than RFID. There was an API (i.e. template code) for setting this stuff up. So you stick a sticker on the back of your company smartcard, your phone, or the bottom of a miniature's base. You put the thing on the table. The table will pop-up a display of your employee info, or the phone's specs, or that miniature's stats, etc. It was a crowd pleaser but really not a big deal. The problem was now you're basically putting stickers on everything. The API was there, which was easy to code, the annoying part was the stickers, making sure the right tag went with the right item. If you're playing like Dungeons & Dragons where you only have a few characters, that's fine. 40k with 30+ models, unwieldy. And of course all this is built upon the camera sensor technology that was part of the previously-original Surface-now-Pixelsense. That was the costly part. I mean, it can be really fancy. I mentioned you could stick a tag on the bottom of a miniature's base, and it might go way beyond the miniature's stats. You're thinking animations, custom voice work for battle cries as soon as you move the miniature (without it leaving the tabletop) so the camera can follow its movement for dust clouds where it's kicking up, or if you take it entirely off the table (so the tag disappears) it can play death sounds. Once the tag is recognised, you can associate it with all sorts of responses. The technology exists, and existed for about a decade. Not worth re-designing this particular wheel, just worth noting. walter h 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptus Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 My perfect games table has a 6x4 playing area, and enough spare space that you can have your books, dice, phone, 'dead' models and models in reserve all on the table without them being on the play area. It also doubles in size. So I can have an 8x6 playing area for humungous games. It's totally modular so I can have any type of terrain I want. It is the right height so that I don't have to bend over all the time to play. This is higher than you think. It comes with storage underneath so that terrain can be stored. What this looks like is TWO 6x4 tables that can be buckled together to form a 6x8 when needed. These tables are totally flat, and the 'core' terrain will be provided by neoprene game mats, that way I can roll them up at any time and replace them with another type, so the same table can be used for an ice table, a city table, a jungle table, a desert table or whatever. Also included in the 'ideal gaming table' setup is a side table of the same size (either a 4x4 or a third 6x4) which both players use to put their models as they're packing up/unpacking, somewhere to put their 'dead' models, bowls of non-greasy snacks (pretzels are a favourite), drinks, printed out FAQs etc, so that we can keep the table free of clutter and enhance the cinematic experience. So in effect we're actually talking about 3 tables, a range of neoprene game mats and several comprehensive terrain collections to make the most of these mats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Wow, thank you guys for the quality responses! @NovemberIX Some really boss ideas re: speakers, storage, dice-rolling, and RFID. I also hadn't thought about some kind of projector/electronic tabletop tiles, either. Not sure how I would implement, but worth pondering. I agree on the cup holders. @Jacinda Drawers will be a must, especially to keep the actually tabletop free of clutter. @Not 1 Step Backwards Wow wow wow, thank you for the thorough feedback and response! I am definitely going to see if I can find any info on that original coffee table, I hadn't seen that in any of my research so far. I think you are right on, re: heat and stability. My solution for the first might be to use a small projector with an added auxiliary fan. For stability, I can mount the tabletop screen into a sturdy wooden frame (set a half-inch down from the wooden edge/lip for dice rolling), and mount drawers, slide-out cutting-board style surfaces, and access points down through the table to a power source for USB, etc. If you don't mind my asking a couple questions: how was the resolution on the coffee table screen, and how large was it? Could you still see it reasonably well in a bright room? If you filmed people playing on it, do you suppose the image would be clear on film? Thank you guys again! Is this something along the lines of what you are thinking about? The screen is probably too small, but potential maybe?? N1SB and walter h 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) I live in a small flat, with the second bedroom being an office shared by me and the missus. We have two desks that are literally just 2x5.5" pieces of wood, they sit on trestle legs from ikea. Whenever i have someone over for a game, i can just move my/the missus pc off them, rotate, and move them together. (it foms a table just under 4x6) Dead easy, and cost less than £50 to setup (and it just goes back to being a regular office after) We're hopefully upgrading flat/house wise sometime soon though so im going to look into upgrading them so i can also fit some shelves under, upgrade the size a bit so there is room round the edges for drinks etc, and will probably paint/texture the underside of the wood so one way up its a normal desk, the other way its a wasteland. As for my perfect table. Beer holders, ashtray is all i really need. Shelves underneath would be great. The projected screen sounds ace...but i wouldnt wanna be the guy that accidentally drops his old metal dreadnought onto it!! Loving the ideas for smoke and lights in this thread though. Band i play in we already own a smoke machine and a load of stage lights, so might have to setup some rigging in my next office for some more dramatic games Edited October 5, 2017 by DanPesci N1SB 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnyogrady Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 @Brother Safiel the projector option seems to be very popular, and the tech available. @Not 1 Step Backwards Man, thank you so much for the treasure trove of information you just gave me there. You actually answered many questions that I had, but had not yet asked, haha. I'm glad to hear that the reception for the coffee table was warm, even with the focus on app- and cloud-based products. I agree that the people tend to like the stuff they can see. And it seems like the tech for projectors has only gotten A ) better and B ) cheaper. I am ecstatic to hear that it is bright enough to play in a lit room and easily filmable. I would love to give one or two of the channels on YouTube an early model to build hype for it. The PowerPoint solution seems like a great, easy way to prove the concept and get some graphics onto the display quickly and easily. I wonder how hard/easy it would be to make a specific program for the table? Perhaps open-source it so that people can design their own and add features. I am, overall, really very happy to hear that the concept has been executed before. I think the challenge would be to build it at a cost that is affordable for interested gamers. Adeptus I TOTALLY know what you mean about the height of the table. I actually just built my own living room table for my small apartment because I couldn't find a 36"-40" (we call it Counter, Pub, or Bar Height here in the states) for an affordable price, but I HATE bending over to prep food, set up models, etc. Inbuilt storage space/drawers are a must, as well. @Wolf_Priest_Dantay. I have seen that video, and it is a big inspiration for the table idea! I toyed around with the idea of setting a big old screen into a table like that, but I found that the cost, weight, and overheat-potential of a 6'x4' screen to be prohibitive. That's actually what led me to the Projector idea. @DanPesci I like the idea of the table being used for regular things during the day, and pulling a Clark Kent when needed to become a gaming table. I was thinking about setting the projector-screen/play-surface down into the tabletop, and creating some wood "leaves" to go over them that fit flush with the raised lip. That way, the screen is protected during the day, and the table can be used for regular stuff without advertising to every guest that you spent a bunch of money on a table for plastic figures. Modular shelves and add-ons (cup holders, ashtrays) would be very cool, too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1SB Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Thanks for that video, Brother Dantay. That's a great point of reference, especially his initial design with the big monitor. That big monitor is the "weak link" in that the table may cost US$150, but a 55" screen is about US$1,000! Then this happens: ...but i wouldnt wanna be the guy that accidentally drops his old metal dreadnought onto it!! That is EXACTLY my fear. Or drinks spill on it. Which is why Brother Gunny and I are thinking more along these lines as a DIY project: You drop that old metal dreadnought. Well, it falls onto the semi-transparent surface. That can be easily replaced. The "expensive" bit, the projector, has no contact. Brothers, you did a great job in getting me to think about this seriously. I'm in Proof-of-Concept mode (which is why I drew that mock-up). The 1st test is cost-scoping. The Microsoft Surface Pixelsense was US$10,000. The main customers were hotels and casinos for a VIP experience, who also comissioned custom applications for it. I just did some due diligence, checked out some base costs of those components, just to get a ballpark figure of what the above concept will roughly cost: Solid table frame - $200. The guy in the video did it in $150. I'm just estimating on the high end. This is mainly a frame an edge to hold up the projection surface. Strong back-lit-capable plastic - $???. This is the projection surface for the digital maps, dungeons. No touch capabilities for the moment, let's just use it as a monitor. Powerbar for players' devices - Negligible. I would put it on 1 corner of the table so people on 2 sides could share it, in a D&D game let's say. Cheap laptop - not going to include this in the cost. We'll be bringing our own devices and USB cable, that shouldn't be an issue for any Hobbyist. Rear projector on custom stand - $200 + $50. A rear projector is about $200 these days. It's designed to project horizontally, not vertically like this, so it'll need a custom stand. If you can build a custom table, a custom stand shouldn't be a major problem, so I estimated on the expensive end it'll be $50 at most. And I just thought of this just now...a wireless mouse & keyboard - to give control to the players, you can pass the mouse back and forth to interact with the "map". So far it comes to about $450 and that's an estimate on the high-end, BEFORE that piece of transparent plastic to project on. That's maybe $50 to $100? I dunno, I'm going to ask a Design & Tech expert about this...tonight, actually. This really needs to be tested out, though. Seriously, dropping a few lead dreadnoughts (leadnoughts lol) is a pretty good fault tolerance/stress test. It's got to be strong enough to withstand that, while also "soft" enough to allow for a back-lit projection. BONUS: touchscreen overlay - $1000 roughly for a 55" (close to a 6' x 4'). At that point, you're basically emulating the functionality of the Microsoft Surface Pixelsense. That will take way more testing and designing though. Like can it differentiate the difference between someone trying to "click" on it with a finger vs. placing a miniature on it. This is way beyond the scope I'd consider right now. I wonder how hard/easy it would be to make a specific program for the table? Perhaps open-source it so that people can design their own and add features. I am, overall, really very happy to hear that the concept has been executed before. I think the challenge would be to build it at a cost that is affordable for interested gamers. It's a tricky question regarding making custom applications, and I hate the answer "it depends", so instead I'll give you several types of options. An application that's basically the equivalent of a fancy website - about $2,000 to $5,000 maybe. This is designing a "front-end", a nice-looking display highly customised. That price-tag represents a month's work from 1 or 2 fresh grads who are bright enough to understand what the customer means rather than what the customer says, because if you're designing a custom app you really have to understand how the customer thinks and wants things. When you outsource a website project with all sorts of fancy animations (rather than a set template), you're looking at around this range and time-to-deliver IMHO. A custom application that ties-in with business applications - an example is imagine the Microsoft coffee table at a casino where customers can order food & drinks by clicking on that table, calling up a menu, selecting an item, it goes to the waiters and kitchen staff, they come out with the drink. And can also play video poker. That's basically $20,000 to $50,000, roughly, IIRC. It probably costs a lot less than to actually make, like the guy actually writing this is someone in India or China, but the sales manager in U.S. will take the lion's share of that. Or just piggybacking off someone else's applications - you make the hardware, let someone else support the software. There's roll20.net that's basically a D&D service. Or those dungeon-making apps. Maybe design around those types of programs. Or Battlescribe. People pass around a wireless mouse (actually, I should have included that in the mock-up I drew above). There's some RPG apps on Steam, I think. In all these cases, players are just using the table as a display, let them decide on they want to use it. The best thing you can do is set up a forum for users to exchange ideas, I think, or maybe feature a list of the most useful applications to this. Or just commission "videos" of battlefields - maybe a hundred bucks or two at most for many videos. We were talking about fog effects and animations and sound. Imagine just finding someone on deviantart to design an animated map. There's buildings, with bullets bouncing off the walls to represent they are cover. Artillery shells kicking up dust. Fog or smoke wafting past. Sounds of planes overhead, explosions. Basically a video has the sight, sound, movement elements. It's also intuitive to users. They connect their laptop up to your table, play the video, there's no learning curve. Or maybe a Macromedia Flash file that allows drag & drop terrain and objective markers, etc. - the cost would be equivalent of that of a fancy website, maybe $2,000 to $5,000. I'm thinking of things I've seen on Newgrounds like build your own mech. But it's build your own battlefield or dungeon. I'm imagining you select a "background" for the map, then drag & drop actual terrain pieces, objective markers, or tiles in the case of dungeons. Maybe it can be built using HTML5 or something. I meant to answer, but I ended up brainstorming a solution. For the purposes of this exercise, I think that last thing I said, a Macromedia Flash or HTML5 mini-app that basically lets you select a map, then drop different types of terrain and objective markers, etc., is a really actionable idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340096-the-coolest-gaming-table/#findComment-4903884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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