Footslogging & ambush heavy Raptors Recon Army List 2000pts

[rudeboy134]

Really don't think this will be very competitive but got into the idea of doing a ambush/infiltrate heavy Raptors list with Lias. 

 

Devastators with Las/MLs and snipers set up far away for Fire support rest will Infiltrate, SFTS, deep strike or be in concealed positions.

 

I'm crazy right?!

 

 

+ HQ +

 

Lias Issodon

 

 

++1st Raptors Recon Battalion++

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol

 

Lieutenants

. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun, The Primarch's Wrath

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad: 8x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Sniper rifle

. 7x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 7x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

. 5x Scout w/Boltgun

. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

. 5x Scout w/Boltgun

. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta

. 7x Scout w/Shotgun

 

+ Elites +

 

Reiver Squad: Combat knife

. 7x Reiver

. Reiver Sergeant: Combat knife, Heavy Bolt Pistol

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Devastator Squad

. Space Marine Sergeant: Storm bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

Devastator Squad

. Space Marine Sergeant: Storm bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

 

Hellblaster Squad: Plasma incinerator

. 7x Hellblaster

. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

Raptors Vanguard Detachment Alpha

 

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

 

+ Elites +

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Veteran Sergeant: Special issue boltgun

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Veteran Sergeant: Special issue boltgun

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Pack

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Veteran Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword

 

 

 

++ Total: [146 PL, 2000pts] ++

 

[Race Bannon]

Crazy like a fo ... raven!

 

So, I'm not into relics, but isn't the Primarch's Wrath a gun?

[rudeboy134]

Yes it is, upgrades the master craftedboltgun

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

My thoughts:

 

1) Assuming the intent is to have the Chaplain alongside the Vanguards, I would swap him for a Captain. The Captain has a better stat-line, and re-rolling 1s to hit (both shooting and hand to hand) will provide better utility to you.

 

2) If you can find the points, Combi-Plasma on characters is markedly better this edition than pistols, so on the above captain I would toss a Combi-Plasma and a power weapon of your choosing.

 

3) I would make room for a 2nd lietenant, equipped with Combi-Plasma and power weapon of your choice, with a Jump Pack. To go along with the Captain and Vanguard. Rerolling 1s to hit and 1s to wound is pretty strong with overcharged pistols.

 

4) While I can see it getting FAQ'd in the future (if it hasnt already) to my knowledge you can take Bolter + Storm Bolter (or Storm Bolter + Sniper Rifle).  I have debated doing this myself since you can shoot both this edition, but I can understand not doing so, since a) its stupid, and b) I dont expect it to stay that way.

 

5) Multi Meltas on devs (or on anything that doesn't have Power of the Machine Spirit) is garbage, imo. They are over-costed, and even with Lias to deep strike them, I find that -1 on a single shot weapon to be very brutal. Id go 4x Plasma, or if you lack the models, id just run 2 heavy weapons.

 

6) I would drop all combi-weapons from the Sternguard. They are a buttload of points, and with the way they changed in 8th (so you lose special issue on the bolter portion of the combi), they are just better served as running their boltguns (especially when paired with the stratagem).

 

7) I think a strong argument can be made in a list like this with running 10-man squads. When you don't have a lot of mobility, I think you want your units that are on objectives to stick, and if you are playing kill points, you want to give up less of them. If I were going to run a foot-force like this, I would probably stick to 10-man units on my troops and devs at least. Just food for thought.

[highwind]

 

 

+ HQ +

 

Lias Issodon

 

 

++1st Raptors Recon Battalion++

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) ++

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain: Jump Pack, Plasma pistol

 

Lieutenants

. Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun, The Primarch's Wrath

 

 

 

Remove the Plasma Pistol on the Chaplain and the Mastercrafted Boltgun + Primarchs Wrath on the Lieut ... give him Stormbolter + Chainsword instead

Get another Lieut with Jumppack, and 2x Chainsword and change on of those for the Teeth of Terra and have him along the Vanguards

 

 

 

+ Troops +

 

Scout Squad: 8x Camo cloak

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Sniper rifle

. 7x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 7x Sniper rifle

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

. 5x Scout w/Boltgun

. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

. 5x Scout w/Boltgun

. Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

 

Scout Squad

. Scout Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta

. 7x Scout w/Shotgun

 

 

 

Use only 5 man squads with one of the following loadouts:

- Sergeant with Stormbolter + Chainsword, 3 Scouts with Bolter, 1 Scout with Heavy Bolter

- Sergeant with two Chainswords or Chainsword + Powerweapon, 4 Scouts with Chainsword and Boltpistol

- Sergeant with Chainsword and Sniper Rifle, 4 Scouts with Sniper Rifle... Camo Cloaks if you have points left

 

 

Devastator Squad

. Space Marine Sergeant: Storm bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Missile launcher

 

Devastator Squad

. Space Marine Sergeant: Storm bolter

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Multi-melta

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon

 

 

Missle Launchers are complete garbage this edition, and Multi Meltas arent much better.

Lascannons and Plasma Cannons are ok but both are outclassed by Gravcannons which is the single best weapon against well over 50% of your potentional targets and only slightly behind Lascannons and Plasma Cannons vs most vehicles... they only target they are lackluster agains ist T6-7 with a 4+ or worse save but these are a) rather uncommon and b) viable targets for Boltguns which you have plenty.

The balancing factor of the Gravcannon is their shorter range but thats exactly the reason why you take them with Lias / Strike from the Shadows

 

 

Hellblaster Squad: Plasma incinerator

. 7x Hellblaster

. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

 

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Combi-plasma

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Veteran Sergeant: Special issue boltgun

 

 

 

If you want Plasma take Company Veterans with Plasma Guns!

Hellblasters are too expensive and Sternguards are more efficient with SIB and their Stratagem

 

 

 

Sternguard Veteran Squad

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun

. Veteran Sergeant: Special issue boltgun

 

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad: Jump Pack

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Space Marine Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power sword

. Veteran Sergeant: Plasma pistol, Power sword

 

 

 

Both units should be 10 men strong

Ditch the Plasma Pistols on the Vanguards... their best loadout is either Chainsword+Chainsword, Chainsword + Power Axe or Chainsword + Power Sword

 

Vangaurds shou

[seriade]

If your still looking at this theme here is a list from one of the frontline guys that is in the style you were looking for its also a brigade just not complely sure how the drops work but i do have  a decent guess

 

 

 

Brigade – Ravenguards

HQs-

Lias Issodon: Chapter Master of the Raptors

Captain with Jump Pack: thunder hammer, storm shield

Lieutenant: master-crafted bolter, chainsword (Teeth of Terra for 1CP most times)

Elite-

Company Ancient with the Banner of the Emperor Ascendant

Vanguard Veterans x5 with Jump Packs: power axe x1

Sternguard Veterans x10: special issue bolters x10

Fast Attack-

Scout Bikers x3: storm bolter x1

Scout Bikers x3: storm bolter x1

Scout Bikers x3: storm bolter x1

Troops-

Scouts x5: bolters

Scouts x5: bolters

Scouts x5: bolters

Tactical Marines x5: heavy bolter, storm bolter

Tactical Marines x5: heavy bolter, storm bolter

Tactical Marines x5: heavy bolter, storm bolter

Heavy Support-

Devastator Squad x6: heavy bolters x4, Armorium Cherub

Devastator Squad x7: multi-meltas x4, Armorium Cherub, combi-plasma

Devastator Squad x7: lascannon x3, missile launcher x1, Armorium Cherub, combi-plasma

Transport-

Drop Pod

[GreyCrow]

Hey ! Good ideas there ! :)

 

So, I'll be the party pooper in the beginning, but the ending will be positive. :D 

 

It's simple, technically Warhammer 40k does not allow for ambushes in matched play. Why that? Simply put, Warhammer 40.000 scenarios for matched play only simulate open battles in regular symmetric skirmishes, due to :

- Both forces know exactly the extent of the opponent forces, even reserved forces

- Both forces deploy with that knowledge without neither having the opportunity to choose the battlefield terrain and where the ambush is going to happen

- Alternated deployment means broadcasting locations of units, as if both forces where slowly running intel ops right before the battle starts to discover where the enemy is located!

- Points are balanced between each armies, so no unfair advantage in army size/power possible (despite some units being stronger)

 

Ambush on the other hand relies on the following principles :

- One side chooses the terrain where the ambush is taking place and has his forces deployed in engagement range

- This same side chooses whether or not to initiate the fighting depending on intel on the enemy forces

- This same side sets up is ambush to get intel on the enemy forces without them knowing there is a trap right there and there

- The OpFor discovers that there are enemy forces when the first shots are fired and when it is already at a positional and numerical disadvantage

 

So, if you're trying to create a fluffy/themed ambush force, you will set yourself up at a disadvantage just because the game rules don't allow for ambush scenarios :P

 

___

 

That being said, that does not mean that you can not take effective learning from ambush principles and adapt them to the open warfare scenarios pushed by 40k! :D

 

It's called a perspective trick : basically, let's look at the 40k game not as a battle, but as a war, where each unit represents armies/cities/operational forces in a country vs country declared conflict for example.

 

In that case, the ambush scenarios becomes possible, because you are setting ambush scenarios for one/two specific unit rather than as if your entire army was waiting for the enemy army!

 

And you can absolutely maximize the effectiveness of your ambush if you think that way and build your army that way.

 

___

 

To ambush effectively a unit, you will need the following :

- Knowing its composition

- Knowing its location

- Knowing its target

- Control the timing of the engagement

- Defining an intent for the ambush (offensive as in taking the initiative and destroy the enemy, or defensive as in countering a specific threat)

- The enemy not knowing where your unit is going to be ambushing

- Ideally not knowing which unit you are going to ambush with (which is more complicated due to knowing army lists)

 

Knowing this, here are the recipes for you to create the best ambush conditions possible!

 

1) How to set up the ambush conditions?

First, you have to draw your enemy towards a specific location and for that you need target. Troops in 40k are the most expendable units, and with Marines are really designed to buy you time to know what the enemy battle plan is.

Basically use them to buy time and set up the enemy, combat squad Troops as much as possible to maximize the number of units to deploy and get intel on what the enemy battle plan is without commiting your support/damage units in an obvious and counterable way.

 

The Raven Guard tactics really allow to be a bit more liberal with deployment, especially with Scouts with Camo Cloaks pairing the +2 to armor from cover and the -1 to hit if you deploy them far enough.

 

What happens is that you'll have a lot of time to get the enemy to show his cards with lots of Scout Squads, their survivability means you can place them a lot more liberally and take a couple of hits early game while you are waiting for the ambush to go off.

 

2) What units to choose?

 

The deep architecture of the 8th edition game systen is that it is an infantry superiority game, period. Everything being able to kill everything, the new scoring rules and the nerf to AP means that the winning condition is how much you can protect your infantry to the end game to score more points than your opponent.

 

Both Troops and support units' goal will be to ensure that you get this infantry superiority, and there are two ways to go about it :

- Your support units are designed to put effective pressure on the enemy infantry right off the bat, forcing the opponent to deal with them before dealing with your infantry, and buying you time (example : Whirlwind, Stormtalon, Sternguard, Aggressors, Inceptors with Akimbolters)

- Your support units are designed to counter effectively the enemy support so that your infantry can have an edge in the infantry vs infantry fight (LasPredators, Rhinos for survivability)

 

For ambush, you'll want something with a lot of punch and deployment options.

 

Here's where is the trick lie : If you select a single unit for ambushing, like let's say Podded Sternguards with Combi-Plasmas, you will not be sure that you will need it prior to the game.

 

Rather, what you want is to select an array of units that you will want to ambush with and as deployment goes, select which ones will have the most impact ambushing and use deployment options/stratagems to get there!

 

If you have, let's say, a selection of :

- Aggressors

- Hellblasters

- Sternguards

- Vanguards

- Inceptors

- Devastators and Centurions

 

Then you can definitely select which ones will have the most impact as you begin to discover the enemy deloyment and battle plan with your cheap and (unfortunately) expendable scouts.

 

3) Stratagems, transports or deployment options?

 

Because you can set yourself up in reserves doesn't mean you have to, if the presence is needed first turn. Especially with Deep Strikers, I see many people using the deployment options to delay the deployment of their troops by putting key units in high orbit in the opening phases of deployment.

 

It tells the opponent : 'This unit is being held in reserves for am ambush. Therefore, I can plan contigency plans to counter its impact'.

 

It only works as misdirection and for non critical units. Deploying last is the best thing that you can go for, due to having more intel that they have.

 

Deep Strike works better for shooty units than Assault units due to the long charge roll making the ambush probability to fail high even with rerolls and command points. It's good to delay the ambush however, and sometimes this is more important.

 

Strike from the Shadows works well for melee units and when you are sure that your units have a good chance of having a big impact first turn. Once again, not deploying your first units in SFTS will not tell your opponent that you are going to do this, and thus plan countermeasures against it.

Alpha Strike with SFTS is dangerous, and the more info you have on enemy deployment, the better you can assess whether it's worth it to go for it. Therefore, once again, this pushes for last deployment even with this stratagem.

 

But then again, a SFTS Hellblaster squad deployed last means you can pretty much choose when and where you decide to have a great impact, protect against the counters and just enjoy life.

 

There is a last ambush type, is standard deployment ambush. If SFTS is too risky due to high enemy return fire potential, you can find a position of strength in your own DZ, but pick best avenues of fire.

 

4) What if my ambush fails?

 

There is a way to make sure that your ambushes never fail, it's never plan for them, but keep them in your tactical toolbelt and use when needed. You won't be disappointed because you'll only do successful ambushes!

 

:D

[rudeboy134]

Thanks alot for everyone's input!