Arjac Movement

[aluriel00]

I want to make a wolf guard focused army but am having trouble getting Arjac where he needs to be. He's too slow to foot slog and I don't want to spend a lot of points on a stormwolf or land raider. If I teleport him in, he's 9" away with my melee units, hopefully, closer. The units he is to accompany move toward the enemy but he must land 9" out. The units are much more likely to make the charge but he has to roll a 9 (unlikely) or stay where he is. This leaves him outside bubble range, outside intervention range and ripe for picking off by my opponent. Even if I bring him in with other deep striking units like JPs or Terminators, he still has to roll to charge on his own.

 

How are you deploying Arjac in wolf guard heavy armies?

[Kasper_Hawser]

I want to make a wolf guard focused army but am having trouble getting Arjac where he needs to be. He's too slow to foot slog and I don't want to spend a lot of points on a stormwolf or land raider. If I teleport him in, he's 9" away with my melee units, hopefully, closer. The units he is to accompany move toward the enemy but he must land 9" out. The units are much more likely to make the charge but he has to roll a 9 (unlikely) or stay where he is. This leaves him outside bubble range, outside intervention range and ripe for picking off by my opponent. Even if I bring him in with other deep striking units like JPs or Terminators, he still has to roll to charge on his own.

 

How are you deploying Arjac in wolf guard heavy armies?

 

I can't advise much on how to deploy Arjac, although teleporting him is the cheapest way at the moment. nine inches away isn't TOO bad compared to the old neurotic rules in 7th where ALMOST NOBODY could charge after deepstrike. 

 

3 ways to increase chances of Arjac making into combat:

 

1) Using command Points reroll - I don't know mathhammer, but I think rerolling one dice increases the chances of Arjac making his nine inch charge from 33% to 40%, which is a reasonable risk to take.

 

2) Curse of the Wulfen - If the Wulfen are within 6", then Arjac and all other Space Wolves units (except the Wulfen themselves and Fenrisian wolves), will be able to reroll to charge. In order to get them there though, you will still need a stormwolf or Land raider, although they do have an increased 7" movement so can potentially footslog. If you do though, best to bring down Arjac and Wolf Guard terminator hammer around turn 2 or turn 3 when the Wulfen are close enough.

 

Still best to invest in Stormwolf but for the Wulfen. Zoom in where you need to deploy Wulfen at Turn 1, hopefully destroy one target with multimeltas, then try survive the retaliation. Then by Turn 2, the Wulfen will be deployed or spill out of destroyed Stormwolf, then teleport in  Arjac and Wolf Guard within proximity to reroll charges.

 

Still expensive eitherway, but the most cost effective and synergistic I've tried so far.

 

3) Ragnar Blackmane in Drop Pod with additional Wolf Guard or Blood Claws or Grey Hunter body guard. Ragnar War Howl also gives reroll to charge to everyone with 6". Only problem is Ragnar's cost himself along with Drop Pod being overcosted currently. Both Ragnar and Drop Pod actually cost only a little bit less than a Heavy Bolter Stormwolf.

 

I still like this idea due to the synergy between Ragnar and Arjac. Problem is that like all characters, their costs are rather prohibitive. At least this time, even if they whiff their charges, with Ragnar's reroll 1s and Arjac's reroll 1 to wound, all your combi weapons, Stormbolters and Arjac's hammer should hurt their targets enough to withstand the retaliation fire.

 

Hope this helps.

[Gherrick]

 

I want to make a wolf guard focused army but am having trouble getting Arjac where he needs to be. He's too slow to foot slog and I don't want to spend a lot of points on a stormwolf or land raider. If I teleport him in, he's 9" away with my melee units, hopefully, closer. The units he is to accompany move toward the enemy but he must land 9" out. The units are much more likely to make the charge but he has to roll a 9 (unlikely) or stay where he is. This leaves him outside bubble range, outside intervention range and ripe for picking off by my opponent. Even if I bring him in with other deep striking units like JPs or Terminators, he still has to roll to charge on his own.

 

How are you deploying Arjac in wolf guard heavy armies?

 

1) Using command Points reroll - I don't know mathhammer, but I think rerolling one dice increases the chances of Arjac making his nine inch charge from 33% to 40%, which is a reasonable risk to take.

I forget if it is the FAQ or somewhere else, but rerolls are always all the dice of a roll, not just a single die. You can't just pick the lowest die of a charge and reroll it, you have to reroll both dice.

[wilkco]

command point reroll is for a single dice not a group of dice.  you are thinking  of the reroll failed charge aura

[Kassill]

Solid advice from the others, however I'd only add that you reconsider a Land Raider/Stormwolf delivery option. With the new Twin Linked rules and Vehicles being so beefy this edition (no imoblize, weapon destroyed, etc) they offer a solid method for getting Arjac and his boys into the mix. 

[wilkco]

I have had the same issue with my deep striking and getting everyone in to fight I also fight against a guy that deep strikes a lot with terminators and looking at it I would suggest the land raider/flyer option due to the amounts of times the dice can hate you. 

 

one option is to use scenery to get the your opponent to advance to you i.e  deep strike in scenery out of LOS and hope he moves towards you after his movement and shooting you can then move forward and then charge shorting the charge range

 

The other option I tried doing was the charge in ajax first and if he did not make it I did not charge in my WG that turn however the flip side is that the WG could fail their charge in and leave ajax out to dry (die).

 

deep strike is a good way to get your opponents to have to change how he deploys but I am finding it is not good to base a lot of your army on deep striking due to the amount of failed charges one game the other guy I was playing against failed all 5 of his units charges. 

[Kasper_Hawser]

One thing to note, just because Arjac DIDN'T make the charge, if the other Wolf Guard make the charge, at least they will be using the +1 attack aura as well as Reroll to wound 1s. So don't think of it as a failure if Arjac doesn't make the charge.

 

I think he'll need a Wolf Lord to make sure the combi weapons/storm bolters hit/kill as a backup. Another cheap way if you don't want to spend on Option 3 (Ragnar and Drop pod), is a generic Wolf Lord/Captain with Jump Pack to deepstrike with the gang. Just a simple one, could make a difference between that combi melta or overcharged combi plasma actually hitting and then killing something, rather than missing all shots and killing himself with plasma. He won't help reroll charges, but as metion in Option 1, that's what CP is for.

 

Here's hoping we get strategems for reroll charges in our codex. Or maybe even a flat bonus to charge/advance distances.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Kasper_Hawser

[aluriel00]

One thing to note, just because Arjac DIDN'T make the charge, if the other Wolf Guard make the charge, at least they will be using the +1 attack aura as well as Reroll to wound 1s. So don't think of it as a failure if Arjac doesn't make the charge.

 

This is the problem - you don't get +1 attack if Arjac fails his charge. A commander must be 8" from the enemy for a model in combat with that enemy to get his aura or you must hold one model out of combat to bridge the gap. I drew a nice picture to demonstrate this, but don't know how to upload it.

 

Arjac > 6" command aura > model > 2" > enemy (1" short)

Arjac > 6" command aura > bridge model > 2" unit coherency > model > 1" > enemy (2" to spare)

 

I guess it's the stormwolf or nothing. I don't want to base an army around something that is going to fail 40+% of the time, and that's with the reroll. It's a shame because the Sanguinor has the same ability but with all Blood Angels and he has a jump pack. Good thing Blood Angels don't have Wulfen.

 

Might as well put the wulfen in it while I'm at it.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

One thing to note, just because Arjac DIDN'T make the charge, if the other Wolf Guard make the charge, at least they will be using the +1 attack aura as well as Reroll to wound 1s. So don't think of it as a failure if Arjac doesn't make the charge.

 

This is the problem - you don't get +1 attack if Arjac fails his charge. A commander must be 8" from the enemy for a model in combat with that enemy to get his aura or you must hold one model out of combat to bridge the gap. I drew a nice picture to demonstrate this, but don't know how to upload it.

 

Arjac > 6" command aura > model > 2" > enemy (1" short)

Arjac > 6" command aura > bridge model > 2" unit coherency > model > 1" > enemy (2" to spare)

 

I guess it's the stormwolf or nothing. I don't want to base an army around something that is going to fail 40+% of the time, and that's with the reroll. It's a shame because the Sanguinor has the same ability but with all Blood Angels and he has a jump pack. Good thing Blood Angels don't have Wulfen.

 

Might as well put the wulfen in it while I'm at it.

 

 

Dude, the aura just has to cover one model from a UNIT for the entire UNIT to benefit. So assuming Arjac doesn't meet the charge but the WG do, just make sure one WG hangs back far enough to be in the 6" range while the rest go to the BTB or 1" range.

 

don't dismiss deepstriking yet. I still think you should deepstrike, and put the Wulfen into Stormwolf. Tie them up until the Wulfen deploy and smash face.

[TheWolfLord]

 

 

One thing to note, just because Arjac DIDN'T make the charge, if the other Wolf Guard make the charge, at least they will be using the +1 attack aura as well as Reroll to wound 1s. So don't think of it as a failure if Arjac doesn't make the charge.

 

 

This is the problem - you don't get +1 attack if Arjac fails his charge. A commander must be 8" from the enemy for a model in combat with that enemy to get his aura or you must hold one model out of combat to bridge the gap. I drew a nice picture to demonstrate this, but don't know how to upload it.

 

Arjac > 6" command aura > model > 2" > enemy (1" short)

Arjac > 6" command aura > bridge model > 2" unit coherency > model > 1" > enemy (2" to spare)

 

I guess it's the stormwolf or nothing. I don't want to base an army around something that is going to fail 40+% of the time, and that's with the reroll. It's a shame because the Sanguinor has the same ability but with all Blood Angels and he has a jump pack. Good thing Blood Angels don't have Wulfen.

 

Might as well put the wulfen in it while I'm at it.

 

Dude, the aura just has to cover one model from a UNIT for the entire UNIT to benefit. So assuming Arjac doesn't meet the charge but the WG do, just make sure one WG hangs back far enough to be in the 6" range while the rest go to the BTB or 1" range.

 

don't dismiss deepstriking yet. I still think you should deepstrike, and put the Wulfen into Stormwolf. Tie them up until the Wulfen deploy and smash face.

Kaspers 100% correct. Because only 1 model needs to be partially within his 6" bubble and that model only needs to be within 1" of a model within 1" its very easy to make sure the unit benefits from his bubble and can all attack.

 

I've had good success with deep striking and charging. I'd say just relying on command points it's about 50/50. Having a way to reroll charges (if both dice are low) and reroll a single dice with a command point should increase the odds heavily but the more units you're rolling for the better.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I am just happy we can charge at all after the now horrid memories of 7th Edition neurotic stance that nobody could charge after deepstriking, although towards the end, more formations got the option including the infamous Skyhammer formation. 9" isn't so bad, although I wonder why they made flamers JUST out of range of that to prevent deepstriking frying.

[Guest]

I am just happy we can charge at all after the now horrid memories of 7th Edition neurotic stance that nobody could charge after deepstriking, although towards the end, more formations got the option including the infamous Skyhammer formation. 9" isn't so bad, although I wonder why they made flamers JUST out of range of that to prevent deepstriking frying.

 

 

DG can use their version of flamethrowers though. Their plaguespewer (forgot name) are exactly 9". DG seem to be the anti-horde army in some aspects. They have their own horde army that can become stronger as it kills more, they can deepstrike and use plaguespewers, and they have drone that can disengage and use plaguespewers or actually just mow down their enemies with "flesh mowers".

 

I am crossing my fingers SW's get a more defined  position in the game. (give back WG their melee weapon+shield+pistol option, please GW?)

[TheWolfLord]

 

I am just happy we can charge at all after the now horrid memories of 7th Edition neurotic stance that nobody could charge after deepstriking, although towards the end, more formations got the option including the infamous Skyhammer formation. 9" isn't so bad, although I wonder why they made flamers JUST out of range of that to prevent deepstriking frying.

 

 

 

DG can use their version of flamethrowers though. Their plaguespewer (forgot name) are exactly 9". DG seem to be the anti-horde army in some aspects. They have their own horde army that can become stronger as it kills more, they can deepstrike and use plaguespewers, and they have drone that can disengage and use plaguespewers or actually just mow down their enemies with "flesh mowers".

 

I am crossing my fingers SW's get a more defined  position in the game. (give back WG their melee weapon+shield+pistol option, please GW?)

If it's got a 9" range then they can't use them after deep striking as you have to be more than 9" from any enemy. It also means any deep strikers charging them won't have to take any Flamer overwatch

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

I am just happy we can charge at all after the now horrid memories of 7th Edition neurotic stance that nobody could charge after deepstriking, although towards the end, more formations got the option including the infamous Skyhammer formation. 9" isn't so bad, although I wonder why they made flamers JUST out of range of that to prevent deepstriking frying.

 

 

DG can use their version of flamethrowers though. Their plaguespewer (forgot name) are exactly 9". DG seem to be the anti-horde army in some aspects. They have their own horde army that can become stronger as it kills more, they can deepstrike and use plaguespewers, and they have drone that can disengage and use plaguespewers or actually just mow down their enemies with "flesh mowers".

 

I am crossing my fingers SW's get a more defined  position in the game. (give back WG their melee weapon+shield+pistol option, please GW?)

If it's got a 9" range then they can't use them after deep striking as you have to be more than 9" from any enemy. It also means any deep strikers charging them won't have to take any Flamer overwatch

 

 

Actually they can, the deepstriker has to be EXACTLY 9" away. It's only when charging, the deepstriker has to roll exactly 9" to get the charge, as opposed to the normal restriction of only being within 1" to make the charge.

[TheWolfLord]

No they can't.

 

More than 9" away is very clear.

 

The entire reason the deep strike charge is always a 9 is because you must be setup more than 9" away so an 8" charge leaves you more than 1" away and therefore it's a failed charge.

 

Check any reinforcement mechanic, the only exception to the MORE than 9" away rule is the Tau and their homing beacon combo.

[Guest]

Re-reading the Teleport Strike rules it states verbatim "...more than 9" away from an enemy model." Therefore the must be 9.1" away and out of plague belcher and plague spewer range.

 

 

So back on topic now...

Edited October 11, 2017 by Caldersson

[Kasper_Hawser]

No they can't.

 

More than 9" away is very clear.

 

The entire reason the deep strike charge is always a 9 is because you must be setup more than 9" away so an 8" charge leaves you more than 1" away and therefore it's a failed charge.

 

Check any reinforcement mechanic, the only exception to the MORE than 9" away rule is the Tau and their homing beacon combo.

 

I recognise my failing and will be sure to correct it.

[TheWolfLord]

 

No they can't.

More than 9" away is very clear.

The entire reason the deep strike charge is always a 9 is because you must be setup more than 9" away so an 8" charge leaves you more than 1" away and therefore it's a failed charge.

Check any reinforcement mechanic, the only exception to the MORE than 9" away rule is the Tau and their homing beacon combo.

 

 

I recognise my failing and will be sure to correct it.

Nobody can ask for anything more brother ;)