M42 - won't most mortal human special characters be dead?

[Petitioner's City]

So by Dark Imperium's timeframe, i guess most normal human named characters are dead. I'm thinking of Creed, Harker, Pask, etc. A century more not just of juvenat treatment but - for IG characters - front line combat? It seems more than unlikely any are still around...

[Corswain]

The plot-armour is strong in 8th Edition.

 

Edit: my guess is that the go-to answer will be The Warp.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Corswain

[Felix Antipodes]

Most named characters can be hand waved away via rejuvenat treatments as stated and thus carried over into the new setting. Frankly, I can't think of many that we would lose, maybe Ciaphus Cain?, as GW/BL keep their human characters pretty nondescript.

[the jeske]

well GW did do the whole calendar is wrong, and it was never right thing. So who knows, dudes like Cortez maybe still running around all young and crispy.

[Urriak Urruk]

Well Jarran Kell is dead, and Creed was captured in a pokeball by Trazyn.

 

Other than that, just say... the Great Rift  everything up.

[N1SB]

I was reading my mate's new IG AM codex yesterday and to confirm:

 

Well Jarran Kell is dead, and Creed was captured in a pokeball by Trazyn.

 

Other than that, just say... the Great Rift  everything up.

 

Ya, Creed is in a pokeball and even the codex gives a nod at this with a "no one really knows his true fate" blurb at the end of his entry.

 

Armageddon, and by extension Commissar Yarrick, is described again as being cut off by warpstorms, so it might be in its own time pocket.

 

As for the rest, the "disappearance" of the Astronomican from Gathering Storm III is also mentioned in the new AM codex, so entire armies are lost in space/time.

 

Even the Regimental Standard mentions the problems with warp travel with its word puzzle article, possibly as a cover story to explain warp travel problems (I dunno):

 

https://regimental-standard.com/2017/07/05/enriching-activities-for-idle-hands/

 

Interesting...while getting the link to this article, I noticed the 5th row from the bottom:

 

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

So by Dark Imperium's timeframe, i guess most normal human named characters are dead. I'm thinking of Creed, Harker, Pask, etc. A century more not just of juvenat treatment but - for IG characters - front line combat? It seems more than unlikely any are still around...

 

Maybe GW is planning on retiring these characters? They're still in the new codex, right? Not every game takes place in the "revised" 999.M41.

[N1SB]

 

Maybe GW is planning on retiring these characters? They're still in the new codex, right? Not every game takes place in the "revised" 999.M41.

 

 

That was exactly my thinking when I opened the new AM codex, in the context of the Gathering Storm and Dark Imperium.  It was like the 1st thing I looked for.

 

1st, they're still in the codex.  In most cases, they get the same fluff as before...except for both Creed and Pask, and in both cases they mention the Fall of Cadia.

 

As before, Creed's status is deliberately described as "no one knows", while the codex went out of the way to describe Pask as being away from Cadia (he was working on the Damocles campaign at the time) and being bitter he wasn't able to defend/die on Cadia with his fellows, and now he wants to go after Abaddon.

 

Thus, it seemed like the AM codex wants to have the cake and eat it too.  It's like the plot has advanced, time has advanced, but in case you want to use the classic characters, they're still totally in the game, EVEN in the revised setting!  Because loose ends, yay!  They do want to leave the choice to players how they want to run it.

[Frater Cornelius]

I am noticing a pattern. Kell is dead, Creed is missing, Pask is gone for a while, Jublai Khan is missing so Kor'sarro may be up for an upgrade, Sicarius is missing. What do all of those have in common? They aren't plastic. Chances are good that they are all scheduled to receive upgrades sooner or later. Creed may tactical Genius his way out a century later and come back as a cyborg or whatever. Khan will get a Chapter Master upgrade, Pask will be killed by Abaddon and will be replaced by his twin broher Flask, Sicarius will be mortally wounded and receive the Primaris treatment.

 

At least that would make sense to a normal person. Whatever the fluff writers and executive thing-doers at GW are, they aren't normal :D

[Sete]

I for one will accept our new Khan Overlord

[Lord Marshal]

Humans in 40k can live for hundreds of years due to rejuvenation treatments. It doesn't hold off on aging forever, but it does expand their lifespan by a surprising amount given how grimdark the universe is otherwise.

 

Creed's stuck in a Pokeball like Greyfax was.

Kell is dead (F)
Yarrack is probably being kept immortal by the Orks weird psychic influence.
The rest of the cast aren't so old they couldn't make it until M42. 

 

Failing that, there's always a convenient "lost in the Warp for X amount of time" they can pull out of their arses. Weirder things have happened. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Lord Marshal

[Urriak Urruk]

I am noticing a pattern. Kell is dead, Creed is missing, Pask is gone for a while, Jublai Khan is missing so Kor'sarro may be up for an upgrade, Sicarius is missing. What do all of those have in common? They aren't plastic. Chances are good that they are all scheduled to receive upgrades sooner or later. Creed may tactical Genius his way out a century later and come back as a cyborg or whatever. Khan will get a Chapter Master upgrade, Pask will be killed by Abaddon and will be replaced by his twin broher Flask, Sicarius will be mortally wounded and receive the Primaris treatment.

 

At least that would make sense to a normal person. Whatever the fluff writers and executive thing-doers at GW are, they aren't normal

 

Sicarius isn't missing anymore, he was found and rejoined Guilliman in Dark Imperium. He's no longer 2nd captain though, Guilliman gave it to someone else while he was missing  .

[Zuvassin]

I dunno, the Blood Angels continue to have Captain Tycho despite him being dead even prior to the current background changes, and I believe the Ultramarines' Captain Invictus and Ancient Helveticus were both already killed off when they were introduced as special characters.

 

It's not entirely out of line for GW to create (or keep) dead heroes as special characters.

[Petitioner's City]

My complaint is - they aren't civilians. They are all 'from the front' military leaders. It strains credibility they have received both expensive medical treatment and not suffered fatality, given they are fundamentally human - easily killed by a single stray bullet, much less all the other horrible ways to die. And some were old - indeed, the 'Old Man' himself being one such figure. Not everyone can be an Eisenhorn or a long-living adminstrator like Lord Rorken living across the centuries, many have to die, and given that time just jumped 100 years in the future - 100 years of much worse war, no less, it seems silly. Indeed more than silly. As @ Not 1 Step Backwards says, it is have your cake and eat it. 

 

I dunno, the Blood Angels continue to have Captain Tycho despite him being dead even prior to the current background changes, and I believe the Ultramarines' Captain Invictus and Ancient Helveticus were both already killed off when they were introduced as special characters.

 

It's not entirely out of line for GW to create (or keep) dead heroes as special characters.

 

They should acknowledge that in the texts, though. Like when Macharius was a character; i.e. these are 'historical' figures. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by Petitioner's City

[Perry]

When the great rift opened some planets experienced time differently to others. Useful plot armour to keep characters around.

[Walter Payton]

Humans in 40k can, if given enough time, live for at least 500 years per the Eisenhorn books (IIRC, Quixos is mentioned as being 500 and Eisenhorn says "well, that's no age"!).  

 

That's before you get into the time dilation effects of so much warp travel, and it can be assumed that most special characters do lots of warp travelling to different battle zones.

[Lexington]

Humans in 40k can, if given enough time, live for at least 500 years per the Eisenhorn books (IIRC, Quixos is mentioned as being 500 and Eisenhorn says "well, that's no age"!).  

Much as I like the Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Bequin books, immortality-via-juvenat-treatments is one of those things that seems to only reside in the "Abnettverse."

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Let's not forget Quixos was also completely corrupted by Chaos and could move almost faster than than the eye could see and that probably had a lot to do with how long he'd been alive. I think it mentioned Inquisitor Commodus Voke was over 300, but he was a very active Inquisitor (lots of warp travel for time dilation) and had numerous rejuvenat treatments. There's also the Check Number at the beginning of the Imperial dating system that tries to show the accuracy of the date compared to Terra timekeeping and can also introduce a large discrepancy in someone's actual age.

[Ishagu]

The Imperium has varying degrees of technology available to certain people. The poor will make use of horse and carriage, the privileged will have anti gravity vehicles and personal Teleporters.

 

It's mentioned in many books that life for those in positions of power can be extended.

[Volt]

Remember from the Beast novels we had a 2,000 year old cybernetic inquisitor. Combining cybernetics with rejuvie treatments basically removes any fear of death from aging for humans. 

[Petitioner's City]

Its not the issue of age primarily, it is *who* are still presented as alive, unchanged, no note of death. Ie, special characters. They are a bit silly

I guess this is more a lament about scale, and how GW treatment of setting doesn't really allow a sense of a galaxy's scale. That is both physical (our galaxy feels utterly small, esp in how special characters function) and chronological (it never feels like 10000 years has passed, much less 100 more recently). Although I liked how Wraight's recent book did really capture that, and other authors have done it very well in the past (Abnett, for example, does, I'd argue, as well as ADB, Forge World and certainly some, older, studio material). 

Anyway lovely thoughts from you all

Edited October 10, 2017 by Petitioner's City

[Marshal Rohr]

Rejuvenant treatments have always been described as extending life into frail decrepitude that requires constant maintenance to continue. However, genetic enhancements, bioengineering, and cybernetics all extend lifespans with little loss of quality of living. I think most people in the thread are mixing them up.

[Frater Cornelius]

 

I am noticing a pattern. Kell is dead, Creed is missing, Pask is gone for a while, Jublai Khan is missing so Kor'sarro may be up for an upgrade, Sicarius is missing. What do all of those have in common? They aren't plastic. Chances are good that they are all scheduled to receive upgrades sooner or later. Creed may tactical Genius his way out a century later and come back as a cyborg or whatever. Khan will get a Chapter Master upgrade, Pask will be killed by Abaddon and will be replaced by his twin broher Flask, Sicarius will be mortally wounded and receive the Primaris treatment.

 

At least that would make sense to a normal person. Whatever the fluff writers and executive thing-doers at GW are, they aren't normal

 

Sicarius isn't missing anymore, he was found and rejoined Guilliman in Dark Imperium. He's no longer 2nd captain though, Guilliman gave it to someone else while he was missing  .

 

 

Codex says he went missing with his ship while Guilliman was organizing the Indomitus Crusade. So he did return during the book? That's a shame. I was hoping for a Primaris Sicarius leading a Primaris Victrix Guard :(

[Commander Dawnstar]

 

Codex says he went missing with his ship while Guilliman was organizing the Indomitus Crusade. So he did return during the book? That's a shame. I was hoping for a Primaris Sicarius leading a Primaris Victrix Guard

 

He's already been with Guilliman for "a considerable time" by the events of Dark Imperium. Nothing in the novel references his absence.

[Urriak Urruk]

 

 

Codex says he went missing with his ship while Guilliman was organizing the Indomitus Crusade. So he did return during the book? That's a shame. I was hoping for a Primaris Sicarius leading a Primaris Victrix Guard

 

 

Tbh I don't really want the UM to get anything else that's new. I'd like to see a chapter like the DA get the Primaris treatment, to see how Primaris work in a different aesthetic.