Flyers and measuring/scoring (esp. Thunderhawk)

[MajorNese]

Hello everyone, a rules question popped up as I'm preparing for a local tournament. I'm bringing a Thunderhawk (more for the lulz than for effectiveness), and it's unclear to me how some aspects of its footprint are supposed to work (RAW).

 

 

First of all, FW clarifies how shooting/psykering at it is handled (treat model footprint as on the ground, add 12" if not <FLY>), but it doesn't mention any other measuring. The model comes without a flight stand, so there is no official height or official base size. People just build them varying from "regular flight stand" to "scratches the ceiling". Also, the Chapter Approved preview (used in the tournament) limits units with the flyer battlefield role, but the Thunderhawk (as a LoW) isn't affected by that, and the FW FAQ doesn't say anything about the bird either.

To boil it down to the relevant parts:
1. How is the distance to other units measured, concerning targeting units/characters? If the "model on the ground" footprint counts (just like shooting AT the flyer, not FROM), flying over a character leads to being able to target it, as the distance is zero. If measured from the model, every single missile/wing/ramp has to be taken into account.

2. How does the flyer interact with objectives? If not including a flight stand (as delivered), it is physically within 3" of an objective just like any regular model. With the usual "flies over everything else" custom flight stand (mine is at 15" vertical distance), it could never be within range, but it couldn't ever be charged by non-<fly> units either, even while hovering, which can't be the intention.
Rules wise, Hovering deactivates all rules separating it from regular models, and none of those rules restrict capturing objectives. Does this mean (RAW), the flyer can capture an objective if its "model on the ground" footprint is within range of an objective?

3. The last sentence includes the usual -1 to hit modifier for targeting flyers. This is after the part about how targeting is measured, but the sentence itself doesn't specify if it affects <fly> models (as the previous parts) or not. My guess would be it's intended like any other flyer (flyers target as usual), but just to be sure, is it the same RAW?

[Gentlemanloser]

If a vehicle has a base all ranges are measured to and from the base.

 

If not, all are measured from the entire hull.

 

Edit. This cropped up this weekend.

 

The Harridan is a massive nid flier. But comes on a tiny tiny base.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[MajorNese]

Ah, good to know.

 

If not, all are measured from the entire hull.

This is the question...where the hull is physically, or where it would be at tabletop level? The latter would solve all questions.

[Gentlemanloser]

If the model doesn't have a base, but the player has based it themselves, the player induced base should probably be ignored.

[Jacinda]

The only time "model on the ground" footprint is mentioned is when it is the target of shooting and psykers.  That rule would not carry over to anything else.  Measure to where the hull actually is no matter the flight stand involved.  That's the only option FW gives you.

[MajorNese]

 

If the model doesn't have a base, but the player has based it themselves, the player induced base should probably be ignored.

Agreed. Made the base area entirely flat, so other models can still occupy the space the bird itself isn't occupying. Better than an unstable base, as 2kg of resin can flatten quite a few models when tipping over.

 

The only time "model on the ground" footprint is mentioned is when it is the target of shooting and psykers.  That rule would not carry over to anything else.  Measure to where the hull actually is no matter the flight stand involved.  That's the only option FW gives you.

...the flight stand is so high, the actual hull position would take a 14" charge when the charging unit is directly below the model. Even hovering, it would be immune to non-<fly> trying to charge it, which can hardly be as intended. And this flight stand isn't that far off what FW thinks, considering the old thunderhawk's similar flight stand, and the "add 12"" rule for targeting it with ranged stuff. Only other solution would be to remove the flight stand for games, that gives something to clearly measure...

[Gentlemanloser]

The model doesn't come with a base. So the collosal Flier rules 'even on a flying base' never applies to that model ( I'm guessing it's a generic rule for other fw fliers).

 

All distances, at all times should be measured to the entire hull, taking the 12" range for shooting for none FLY units (all that the collosal Flier rule applies to) into account.

 

Controlling objectives, 1" distances from enemy models etc, are all from hull as usual.