Krieg in 8th edition... the unique units

[Galron]

They do have the Astra militarium keyword right? As said they also have regiment DKOK/Elysian. Therefore they are just as legit as Regiment Cadian or Valhallan. They just do not have any "doctrines" as those weren't around when the indexes were created. I am at work and don't have the books in front of me so I could be mistaken but they are still the same army and can take choices from the other army just like codex can take choices from Imp Armor.

[Mitchverr]

The problem is not that that until there is that beloved faq everyone wants Dkok and the drop troops are basically red headed stepchild of the imperial guard.  My argument was basically until your told yes you have to make the assumption no.  The Dkok are curently in the same place as multiple other armies atm they do not have a codex and do not get magic access to the codex as it does not represent their army.  Yes the two are related but so are the thousand sons,  the dark angels, the blood angels, and the space wolves from their respective codxes they are all still index army's and regardless of other things until that index gets turned into a codex or chapter approved comes out if you want to take things for the Dkok from the codex you need to be playing them as a codex army and not there index.

 

Forgeworld told me to not assume either way lol, and to apply the rules in a way that my local group liked, so to say "assume no" is incorrect there or they would just go "no you cant" as they have in the past with email questions.

 

99% sure that when they get their own thing, that the following will happen.

 

They get a unique stratagem and relic like all other regiments do. Perhaps 1 order replaced 1 order their own, so they have same number of orders.

They get 2-3 doctrines because FW special, these being based off of death rider squadron, siege regiment and assault brigade, the latter 2 most likely but we might be lucky to get 1 based on operating death riders as the main force again.

 

But yeah, this would be the most consistant and easy mode way for FW to deal with it all, they dont need to points change, they dont need to make 3 different army formations, they dont need to make a very long doctrine for the groups, something simple such as

 

"assault brigade - Engineers count as a troops choice, unless they take a hades drill transport in which case they are elites"

"siege regiment - Artillery taken with this army get some kind of bonus"

"death rider squadron - Death riders have objective secured"

Edited October 11, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Tyr13]

Are people really debating wether DKoK can use IG stratagems? I mean, the deathguard codex obviously shows that you can. Deathguard can use stratagems from C:CSM if they fulfill the requirements. (that is, the keywords match).

 

Relics are a different matter, Id be a bit more cautious about them - but it shouldnt be too problematic to allow them as well, for varietys sake.
 

As to doctrines... I guess RAW you could have a case, but RAI seems iffy, especially when you consider some of the anomalies thatd pop up (HELguns that rapidfire over their whole range using SL tactics, for instance). So Id probably wait for an official ruling on those.

[Tirak]

As I posted earlier, DKoK can take relics as they fulfil the keyword requirements for the generic Astra Militarum ones. I've quoted the rules and provided page numbers if you want to check for yourself.

[Mitchverr]

Also, twin heavy stubber, in my personal view, best anti horde weapon in the krieg/guard arsenal point for point as a squad, 3 points more each then a mortar, but with 6 shots each, no random chance of rolling a 1 at all. These are arguably 1 of the best weapon systems we have for long range killing of horde armies in my view (especially given how mortar spam has been seen in tourny winning armies, I wil happily pay the price to upgrade to a heavy stubber vs a mortar in most instances).

 

 

Also, regimental standard did a krieg thing, possible that this combined with krieg stuff last week we could be seeing more krieg including the book sooner then we thought? Or at least an FAQ?

 

further edit, it got deleted, perhaps somebody put it up a little too early lol.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Mitchverr

[duz_]

=][=

 

Enough discussion of FW regiments and the use of C:AM relics, RD's and orders.

That discussion has derailed multiple threads since the announcement of them. 

Any further discussion (including other threads) on FW regiments and their compatibility with C:AM special rules, will result in the thread being closed. 

 

In regards to moderating Frater in threads, leave that for the Mod team.

If you believe someone is posting outside the Forum Rules, then use the "Report" function so that the Mod team can determine the appropriate action.

 

=][= 

 

 

[Harrowmaster]

Five man grenadiers with melta/plasma plus heavy flamers in a centaur seem like a good alpha strike/distraction unit.

[Halfpint100]

I have often been tempted to splash on some death riders. But they are just SO EXPENSIVE! 

[Mitchverr]

Im still pretty unsure on how many death riders I would actually use over salamanders for a DKK pure force, given the problems with reguards to scout moving in the army to protect from deep strike.

 

Kind of a shame the only scout move protection in the army is salamander and assault centaur with grenadiers.

[Mitchverr]

So I know this is a bit of a bump to the thread, but I was just looking for a lil bit of commentary/advice on the subject.

 

So I am really loving the empire of man models and wanting to use them with DKK rules, I am just unsure on what numbers I would fully need as "useful and will be used" and "what is a fair count as".

 

Their KS page https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/geeksaw/empire-of-men-28mm-sci-fi-miniatures-collection/description

Their youtube page (has some of the units rendered etc) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWIO-YZm3HVkI0RSjkFUhqw

 

Currently I am looking at having

 

their psykers acting as flags/a psyker command unit from the guard dex keeping in theme with the army

80 male storm troopers to count as infantry

40 of the female stormtroopers to count as engineers (because the armour plate)

 

Which I think is reasonable as I wont use more then 30 engineers in a match so I have 10 spare to use for perhaps command squads/conversions.

 

I am just thinking on what I can use to represent grenadiers or twin heavy stubbers, the marksmen platoon

 

Would people consider these a fair proxy for acting as a twin heavy stubber proxy at 2 models per HWT base? I am thinking of it as the guns being something like the BAR from WW1/2, I know they look more like snipers (obvious given the name they are sold under) but thought it could work well as that or grenadiers if I plan to use any (currently i dont, they simply are too expencive points wise for what they do in my view).

 

 

Now thats out the way...

 

Our unique units, the grenadiers and the death riders....

 

Am I wrong in dismissing grenadiers pretty much out of hand for engineers instead and more infantry?

 

For death riders, is 25 of them including a command squad and officer too many for a competitive army? 2k points.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Mitchverr

[duz_]

Those a pretty awesome looking models...

Id be happy to let you proxy! Im almost tempted to back if myself ... :D

[Withershadow]

I would have backed it if it wasn't for their track record.

 

I'm still going to probably get the marksmen, if they ever materialize, to use as Ratlings.

 

By the way, Grenadiers take single stubbers on a single guy, they don't do the traditional heavy weapon team of two except for heavy flamers.

[Mitchverr]

The twin heavy stubber thing is if i just run a twin squad (ie 3 heavy weapon teams).

 

Grenadiers is using them as hotshot lasgun proxy as a "heavy autogun" type of deal, as my guards are going to be more "autogun in fluff". But grenadiers just seem to pricy for my personal taste at 9 points per model.