Blood Angels and Primaris

[bushman101]

Is anyone using Primaris Marines in BA lists?

 

Although I want to use them, I keep gravitating back to 'normal' marine units.

 

Anyone in the same boat, or is it just me?

[durdle-durdle]

I use the lieutenant to babysit my devestators and predators. That’s about it.

 

Brought hellblasters twice, but they got shot off the table before they could do anything. Intercessors are pointless imo, because I’d rather have snipers or a mounted tactical squad. Inceptors are just bad. Company vets do what they do much better IMO. Reivers seem pretty ok, but I’m not yet sold on them. Their damage output seems kind of meh, and their no overwatch ability seems difficult to use. Aggressors have great anti infantry shooting, but sort of short range, so need s repulsor transport, which also has a ton of anti infantry shooting, to go with all your razorbacks and bolters...seems kind of infantry overkill and a lot of eggs in one very points expensive basket. I could see primaris heavy raven guard being good with their deployment options, but they seem kind of bad for us.

[appiah4]

I'm thematically and categorically against using any primaris for my BA army, they will be their own force, and a completely different chapter (Mantis Warriors).

Edited October 10, 2017 by appiah5

[Karhedron]

If you are buying an MSU to babysit objectives then I think Intecessors are OK. They have longer range, Ap-1 and twice as many wounds as an SMU Tactical squad. They don't get a heavy weapon but then a Tac squad is basically a heavy weapon with 4 ablative wounds.

 

I think when all Troops get ObjSec, there will be a case for Intercessors but saying they are better than Tactical squads is not exactly a resounding endorsement.

[Blindhamster]

I've personally enjoyed using all the primaris units, are they better than codex options? probably not for a lot of things, though I don't really see them as necessarily worse at their individual roles. One thing primaris lack is a dedicated melee unit. Reivers feel more like melee support in how they play. They're a good bully unit, used against squishy or weakened infantry targets, but they aren't hard hitters (would change that sentiment a bit if we got a strength bonus as standard).

When I spoke to Jervis back at warhammer fest I pressed him for his hypothetical thoughts on how he'd imagine a dedicated primaris melee unit, he said he'd such a unit melee unit wearing heavier armour, perhaps a bit like the captain.

As such, I think we'll see more in the future.

• But already, Hellblasters are very good, but they do need a captain for rerolling 1s nearby to be truly scary.
• Aggressors are decent in that they arent prohibitively expensive and have good volume of fire, but its low strength and short range, so they're incredibly niche I feel - amazing vs horde armies
• Inceptors with assault bolters are actually quite good, make sure to make use of the mortal wounds on charge rule to as good an effect as you can, they'll usually be safer if they can charge a shooty unit, because you take that shooty units ability to fire at full effect on their turn away. I havent tried the plasma version yet (mine are half built)
• Intercessors are good, their standard gun is much better than a bolt rifle, and honestly better than a sniper rifle most of the time. They are deceptively resilient unless enemies focus on them and they dont suck in melee (ours are worse due to no power sword on the sergeant though

[Bremon]

I don’t have any mini-marines yet...I’m waiting to see what the codex brings. I’m happy with Hellblasters and intercessors, I’ll be trying out aggressors soon. I’m expecting new Primaris units to accompany BA and DA releases. They must have nearly wiped out the BA in the fluff for a reason lol.

[happyslugger]

I am only just starting my BA army, but I picked up the primaris half of DI and the death company strike force + box of Sanguinary Guard.  I have also converted a jump pack Sanguinary Priest and JP Librarian (from dark vengeance box set) and JP Captain.  

 

I haven't built most of it, but I am waiting to see how things develop prior to buying older marines as I think they will get left behind at some point and I am unsure if they will turn out to be a waste of money (for someone starting fresh).

[Xerxus]

I think intercessors have a place. They are the most durable infantry unit per pt in the BA collection and can fend for themselves in CC, even better now with the chainsword. A 30'' range means that they can stay relevant from the backline even though their shooting is quite pathetic. You put 5 intercessors by each objective in your deployment zone and leave them there. If the opponent wants you off those objectives they will have to commit a non-trivial amount of shooting or somewhat capable melee units. In comparison to other troop choices (the most relevant comparison with obsec coming) tactical marines are less durable per pt, their bolters are less likely to be in range and they are worse in CC per pt. A proper heavy weapon is nice but not enough to make up the difference. Scouts are not getting that coveted 2+ save in cover unless you equip them with camo cloaks and their range is lacking unless you equip them with sniper rifles. If you give them both you are paying 18 pts per model with 1 wound each, meaning considerably less durability per pt.

 

If you like flexibility the intercessors are probably not the right choice, but as screening units or objective campers they perform relatively well.

[LordKelvin]

The two primaries that have consistently made it into my games are Aggressors and Hellblasters. The Hellblasters make me waffle back and forth on usefulness. They shine eviscerating over eager transports or flyers that move within their 15" death bubble. But to get them up there means they leave behind the devastator squad and captain re-rolls. Which is a problem because they need to supercharge to really earn their points back and no re-rolls mean they often die (for me). I'm leaning towards replacing them with razorbacks or a predator for longer range lascannon vehicle destruction. The -4 AP is great for ensuring even smaller things die every time they shoot. 

 

I have three Dakka Aggressors and they are some of my favorite things in my army. I babysit them with an Apothecary/Saguinary Priest to bring back one every turn. They are annoying to kill in cover. Great to revive since I can bring back 12 + 2d6 shots if the unit didn't move. They bully hordes and threaten vehicles if they get close with the power fist equivalents. I'm looking to get 3 more at some point and they can be my dedicated anti-horde answer.

 

I will agree with Xerxus on the intercessors. I ended up cutting mine, but they are very tough for what they are. They often didn't get a lot of kills but they soaked up a good number of shots.

[tychobi]

Primaris are Ultramarine heresy.  Keep your ranks pure brother.  

[Blindhamster]

Primaris are likely to be what make up the majority of BA from a Canon perspective. Unless our plot armour was so strong we didn't take many casualties ..

 

*hand waves* oh yeah it was the successors that took heavy casualties *cough*

[Panzer]

Yeah....honestly I'd rather see BA made up of mainly primaris from now on than something like that. 

[Riot Earp]

I played Inceptors and Intercessors and both had their use in the game after i was very sceptical about Primaris Marines. But i must say that i like them gamewise.

Inceptors are like an swiss army knife waiting in the sky to delete soft targets with bolters and charge vehicles to bind them.

Lieutnant is a No-Brainer. Primaris-Acient also has it uses.

Yeah Primaris get instagibbed by d2 weapons but the opponent must decide if he want to shoot your vehicles or the primaris.

I would´t play a full primaris force but some primaris here and there in an BA Army won´t hurt.

Not sure to field them in competive games but in casual games i will mostly flield one primaris unit.

[TheHarrower]

My plan is to bring a unit of Intercessors, a Primaris Captain babysitting a unit of Hellblasters, and a unit of Reivers. At my FLGS, Hellblasters pretty much delete a unit a turn if they aren't dealt with. They draw a ton of fire which is okay as it gives other units a chance to get into position. 5 Intercessors are great to drop on an objective. With double the normal wounds as a Tactical squad they're resilient and a bit better at shooting. Obsec makes them an issue sooner or later. Haven't used Reivers yet, but I think they'll be pretty good at harassing the enemy. Haven't used Inceptors yet either. Not crazy about them. Other people I've seen use them have them drop in, shoot once, and just die.

[Emissary]

I've been playing a full BA primaris force for a few weeks now.  Few observations.  Also, we play games with 100 power rather than 2000 points.  My normal full primaris list clocks in a 100 power/1966 points.  We also don't play with a lot of tourney lists, we are rather casual.

 

Here's the list (all primaris in case I don't say):

 

Captain with auto bolt rifle

Librarian

6 Aggressors with boltstorm/fragstorm

Redemptor Dreadnought with Plasma, fragstorm and gatling cannon

5 Intercessors with stalkers, grenade launcher and chainsword

5 Intercessors with auto bolt rifles, grenade launcher and chainsword

5 Intercessors with bolt rifles, grenade launcher and chainsword

Repulsor with lascannons, las-talon, gatling cannon, 4 fragstorm, 2 crackstorm, rocket pod and ironhail heavy stubber

3 Inceptors with plasma

10 Hellblasters with plasma incinerators

5 Hellblasters with assault plasma incinerators

 

Overall, I've really enjoyed playing with the army.  They've done well enough and I haven't felt they were really terrible.  Again, we don't play with full touney lists, so I'm not playing against min/maxed ott armies.  The 10 hellblasters typically start in the repulsor to let them redeploy easily if needed, protect them if my opponent goes first or to get extra movement by deploying then moving on the first turn.  The captain is usually nearby to keep them in range of the reroll. 

 

Some observations:

 

1) The army can handle tanks, but it is the issue for the army as others have said.  My last game I was able to destroy a leviathan dreadnought, sicaran, rhino, razorback and a contemptor dread.  Only didn't get the 2nd contemptor and 2nd razorback.

2) The BA librarian spells can be rather good for the primaris.  Putting a 4+ invulnerable on the dread, repulsor, hellblasters or aggressors can make them quite tough to kill, especially with all the plasma out there.  

3) The intercessors are set up to have one to sit in the back with a backfield objective, one to hold a closer objective and then one to move forward to take an objective or act as a screening unit.  The different guns allow them to function quite well and they are durable, especially when in cover.

4) Hellblasters are really good at mauling units in cover or destroying tanks.  I think a captain is almost required to bring them as the overcharged shots are the real deal.

5) The Redemptor is okay, but not fantastic.  Luckily its not hideously expensive.  I like the plasma better as it's quite strong and I can use a command point to reroll if it only gets 1-2 shots.  I already have a lot of S5 or below firepower, so I think the giant gatling cannon isn't required.  However, when overcharged, the plasma wounds land raiders or leman russes on a 3+.

6) The aggressors are a giant bucket of dice unit that maul infantry.  They've done things like wipe out 20+ poxwalkers in a single round or do 4 wounds to a charging rhino with overwatch.  Being able to run and still fire if necessary gives them range that can be unexpected.  I don't think they're required to be in a repulsor.  They usually hold down a flank.  If my opponent focuses on them, then the assault hellblasters, repulsor or redemptor aren't taking that fire.  Having the librarian give them +1 attack can push out a ton of power fist attacks (19).

7) The assault hellblasters try to stay in the 18-24" of the enemy if possible to limit what fires at them while maintaining their full fire.  Because they only overcharge to S7, I don't tend to use them against tanks unless necessary.  I usually use them to sweep cover to root out heavy weapon troops or heavy infantry., though I can use them against tanks if necessary.

8) I know people seem to hate them, but I love my plasma inceptors.  They can insert a tremendous amount of firepower where and when needed.  I do have the bolter ones as well, and I use them together at times.  Given their strengh and ap on the guns, I can be reasonably sure they can root out a backfield heavy weapon nest in cover or tank which can be tough for bolter inceptors.  I have taken out several support characters behind a screening unit that my opponent forgot about. They usually think they're safe, but then I drop down and suddenly the nob standard or librarian is suddenly closest and the plasma finishes them quickly  More often, I tend to drop them near my captain though.  With an 18" range, I don't have to come in behind the enemy and by being near the captain they can overcharge safely.  Being able to insert 6d3 heavy plasma shots can help to turn a flank or take down a tough enemy like a leviathan.   They can also safely land outside an auspex scan and still be dangerous.

 

Now, I will certainly agree that by taking them as one of the codex chapters (especially as raven guard for me) would be better for them.  The BA librarian rules are great for them, but that's about it.  This goes double for the really stupid idea not to let the intercessor sergeants have power weapons.  I think the list works a little better by replacing the redemptor dread with a contemptor mortis with lascannons, but I want to run a pure primaris army right now. 

 

Lastly, my opponents are letting me use the generic space marine stratagems, relics and general abilities from the codex.  It adds some help, but not a ton.  Usually just the auspex scan or dreadnought strategem and the burning blade for the captain or standard for an ancient.  I've been moving away from the ancient recently, as I don't have the points and would rather have the librarian. 

[durdle-durdle]

What do you think about plasma inceptors vs plasma company vets? I haven’t done the math on which will do more damage per point but 5 jump vets with plasma is about 100 points less than the inceptors.

[bushman101]

hmmm.....maybe next game I run a pure Primaris list, just for giggles.

No vehicles will mean a foot slog list.... but hey, it will be interesting