Arganias Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Hello! BLUF: Can I add IG vehicles that don;t have the Militarum Tempestus regimental key word to the same detachment and still get the benefits of their regimental doctrine? I was flipping through the new codex and was trying to make sense of the regimental doctrines and how they work during army building. I already have an army of about 40 Kasrkin and some tanks, along with basic Cadian infantry. My goal is to eventually have a fast moving special forces themed army, but I am concerned that I can't put Tauros-vehicles into the same detachment, but I can't find anywhere that strictly states that Tempestus cannot add certain vehicles and units into the same detachment that does not explicitely have the Militarum Tempestus keyword. I am not trying to be 'that guy', I just want to be sure my can work how I envision it before I buy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Militarum TempestusMILITARUM TEMPESTUS units can be included in an ASTRA MILITARUM Detachment without preventing other units in that Detachment from gaining a Regimental Doctrine. Note, however, that the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS units do not themselves benefit from any Regimental Doctrine unless every unit in that Detachment is from the Militarum Tempestus ... <snip> Units with the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS keyword treat this as their <REGIMENT> keyword in all respects, but the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS keyword cannot be used to replace the <REGIMENT> keyword on any other datasheet. So... no surprisingly. Tauros's have the <Regiment> keyword, yet you cannot replace <Regiment> with Militarum Tempestus. If you were to include Tauros's in a unit with Militarum Tempestus units, then the unit would no longer be completely Militarum Tempestus, and you would not get the Stormtrooper doctrine. Edited October 10, 2017 by duz_ Removed excessive rules quotes to avoid GW's gaze Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arganias Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Thank you for the quick response! I would have to bring a separate detachment to use them both to their fullest it seems. That's unfortunate, but what can you do? I have to split my army up a bit, but I think I can still make the theme work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Thank you for the quick response! I would have to bring a separate detachment to use them both to their fullest it seems. That's unfortunate, but what can you do? I have to split my army up a bit, but I think I can still make the theme work. Ironically, what you could do is decide what Regiment you want your Tauros' to have, and they would get it, as Militarum Tempestus does not prevent any other regiment from recieving their Doctrine if they are included in that unit. So you wouldn't get the Storm Trooper doctrine, but you could take something like Steel Legion for the Ignore AP-1 rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arganias Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 I might try something like that, but I might keep it Cadian for now even! You've been a lot of help! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyr13 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Cadian tauros seems like a bad idea, tbh. Standing still is not something you want to do, I dont think... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 I think Tallarn would work really well if you wanted lots of fast moving vehicles like the Tauros. You could take detachment of Tallarn for your vehicles and any basic Guard Infantry / Vets etc you wanted and then another detachment of Tempestus. An Elysian Detachement has a special forces feel and would work really well thematically and on the tabletop with Tempestus so you could go for a detachment of them and a spate Temestus detachement? In both those cases everyone would have therir Regimental Doctrines / orders / strategems no worries. The other option, as has already been said, is to include Tempestus in with your other Guard in one Detachment. They'd lose their Doctrine (not that great anyway really) but everyone else in that Detachment would get theirs. That way you could easily get up to Brigade strength for extra CP's as well. Sounds like it'll be a fun army whatever you decide :) CoffeeGrunt 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Tallarn seems to suit them well, or maybe Catachan for the Frag mode. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Tallarn is useless to a Tauros. The normal one has no heavy weapons, and the venator already has a moving and shooting special rule. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Assault and shoot without Penalty? Also outflanking shenanigans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Assault and shoot is Infantry Only. The Tauros is a vehicle, so only benefits moving and shooting heavy weapons, which it already does. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Ah, not picking up my book until tonight due to my store's order getting messed up, so I didn't know for certain. Hmm, yeah the Tauros is a bit of an ugly duckling that doesn't really fit into any particular faction then. :| Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 If you take them in a seperate detatchment you can apply the storm troopers doctrine onto said detatchment, then everyone has it, and fluff run it as you will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 You can't apply Militarum Tempestus doctrine to non-MT models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 You can't apply Militarum Tempestus doctrine to non-MT models. Got a section for that? Because as far as I can read, you can under the Generic Regiment rule. You can't give them the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS keyword, but you can give the Storm Trooper Doctrine to a non-named regiment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) You can't apply Militarum Tempestus doctrine to non-MT models. Nothing says you cant do this. You cant apply militarum tempestus REGIMENT, you can however, apply the stormtroopers doctrine. This is again, why i think them putting a name on the doctrines was a bad idea, under the militarum tempestus discription on the opposing page, explaining doctrine with keyword militarum tempestus regiment stuff ,they in fact call it stormtrooper doctrine, which imo is perhaps a possible clue that they originally didnt have a REGIMENT word on them, What you do is you form a normal, non main 8 regiment as your keyword regiment eg the 123rd Bork hunters, then pick any doctrine, brutal strength, grim demeanour, stormtroopers, but in this case you pick stormtroopers and thus, you have the bonus. https://youtu.be/_8-bVavjVBs?t=1117 A good view of many rules, but the time i took this from shows the rules for doctrines. (18min mark area) Edited October 10, 2017 by Mitchverr Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4905957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Well, the Stormtroopers themselves would not benefit. Militarum Tempestus units do not benefit from any doctrines unless their whole detachment is drawn from Militarum Tempestus, and no other units can be labeled Militarum Tempestus. However, you are correct that if you pick a unique Regiment, you can technically select the Stormtroopers Doctrine. This has pretty mind-blowing implications. All your models, from the Leman Russ Punishers to the Earthshaker carriages, to any other special heavy weapons, ALL trigger additional attacks on rolls of 6. You may not get a unique stratagem or order, but that seems pretty insane. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4906079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 It seems insane but, I cant think of a unit where it actually makes it "nuts", even with the punisher, it will mean an extra 6 hits on avg if it fires the main gun twice right(as you only trigger another shot, not another hit, meaning on avg you hit 50% of the new shots)? So vs most targets 4 wounds more with the doctrine and thats the most aggressive rate of fire model. Sure conscripts first rank second ranking would land a whole mess of more shots but, its still a lasgun hitting on 5s in the end. Personally I think other doctrines are more useful for most things myself, this being helpful to a few units. And yeah, it would mean taking 2 detatchments if you want actual scion usage keeping the doctrine, but most people field them seperately now anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4906085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Fox Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 As far as I can tell you can have a detachment of all MT + advisors and still be okay though as the advisors specifically state that they do not prevent other things from getting their perk. So you can take your Commissar, Priest, Tech-priest, Valkyries, Ogryn, Ratlings, etc with your Stormies. Just not a Leman Russ, Sentinel, Chimera, or artillery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4906118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arganias Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) Elyssians could be fun to add. I haven't invested too heavily into Cadians, just happened to get my hands on a lot of Kasrkin. It might be interesting to get a mixed force of them for a real airborne, SF feel. Now I just need to be able to put my inquisitor in somewhere lol. Edited October 10, 2017 by Arganias Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4906126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 As far as I can tell you can have a detachment of all MT + advisors and still be okay though as the advisors specifically state that they do not prevent other things from getting their perk. So you can take your Commissar, Priest, Tech-priest, Valkyries, Ogryn, Ratlings, etc with your Stormies. Just not a Leman Russ, Sentinel, Chimera, or artillery. Nope, MT specifically have a rule that unless everything is Militarum Tempestus, they don't gain their stormtrooper doctrine. The other regiments are spelled out to have a few exceptions to that rule, whereas MT have a specific restriction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4906190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Worth noting the MT doctrine only works within half range, making it nigh useless on the short range Punisher. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340222-tauros-venators-and-militarum-tempestus/#findComment-4906267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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