Azarians Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi Guardsmen ! So I'm working on the codex to find the best synergys with a Cadian artillery. But I think that topic Can help lot of Tallarn's commander who wants to ambush some units ! So I Wonder what is the best tout Ambush ? First, I think about a Shadowsword (you know that I'm in love with that tank !), With a Tank Commander in punisher (lascannon and multi-metas for ever) and 2 demolisher (lascannon and multi-metas too). It's a configuration which let my Big tanks away from the opposant's AT, wich is good for me ! And it Can destroy a lot of things I suppose... On a second configuration, WE Can outflank some conscripts, Can be good tout catch that objective so far away from your deployment zone, but we have better units to do that (scions) Why not outflanking hellounds or variants ? Nothing Can escape from this (7 inches +16 inches= 23 inches, and you Can chose your edge, so you Can burn a lot of things !!!) But I think thé Hellounds Can be Aldo better in a Catachan détachement, with thé reroll of number of shoots... What do you think about it ? PS: Sorry for my english.. I hope it isn't too Bad ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Hi Guardsmen ! So I'm working on the codex to find the best synergys with a Cadian artillery. But I think that topic Can help lot of Tallarn's commander who wants to ambush some units ! So I Wonder what is the best tout Ambush ? First, I think about a Shadowsword (you know that I'm in love with that tank !), With a Tank Commander in punisher (lascannon and multi-metas for ever) and 2 demolisher (lascannon and multi-metas too). It's a configuration which let my Big tanks away from the opposant's AT, wich is good for me ! And it Can destroy a lot of things I suppose... On a second configuration, WE Can outflank some conscripts, Can be good tout catch that objective so far away from your deployment zone, but we have better units to do that (scions) Why not outflanking hellounds or variants ? Nothing Can escape from this (7 inches +16 inches= 23 inches, and you Can chose your edge, so you Can burn a lot of things !!!) But I think thé Hellounds Can be Aldo better in a Catachan détachement, with thé reroll of number of shoots... What do you think about it ? PS: Sorry for my english.. I hope it isn't too Bad ! Baneblade variants are too big for the outflank rules unfortunately. You could in theory outflank 9 hellhounds (3 squadrons of 3), with hull heavy flamers that is 3D6 autohits per tank. Personally I would outflank close range leman russes and hellhound variants. Or 60 conscripts with a commissar (just for the fun). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) 3 Tallarn chimeras carrying death korps engineers Honestly, it all depends on what it is you intend to fight etc. The glory of this is that really, there isnt a "bad choice" so to speak. If infantry, I would go with using transports to get non generic guard up there such as death korps etc, vehicle wise, any hellhound version or punisher/demo russ I would go with. Oh, and ofcourse, the malcador infurnus, in fact, just go in with those and hellhounds. Edited October 11, 2017 by Mitchverr Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 If I deploy the Baneblade parallel to the table edge, it is below 7 inches (since it is less wide than 7 inches) Halfpint100 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 If I deploy the Baneblade parallel to the table edge, it is below 7 inches (since it is less wide than 7 inches) Fair enough. I would go for one of the short range versions, rarther than the shadowsword personally. or 9 hellhounds (i like burning things) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906834 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azarians Posted October 11, 2017 Author Share Posted October 11, 2017 Burn some Heretics is Always good ! ;) The Malcador infernus look really strong ! Outflanking 9 hellounds is an Idea who doesn't seduce me too much, you need to kill the AT before they come because they will be destroy if not.. But it's still hard to kill 9 hellounds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I wouldnt go full on 9 hellhounds, I would go something like 6 hellhounds and 3 devildogs (the 1 with melta) so you have an anti tank unit with them for killing vehicles/transports. Also the malcador looks really strong, but points wise, hellhound/banehound iirc are actually a "better option" especially with reguards to number of hulls and this was before the hellhound buff too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Can't take Commissars, so conscripts are...a questionable choice. I personally am thinking about long range tank commanders with short range sponsons. Show up in the enemy backfield, destroy all long range anti armor, and then use a combo of your orders and your naturally good move speed to kite any short range anti tank, while pouring rounds into their heavy units. So something like 2 battlecannon commanders, with lascannons and multi meltas, and a punisher with 2 heavy bolters and a lascannon. Everyone with track guards, a stormbolter, and a hunter killer missile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urzu4 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Hey guys long time since i posted but i figured id get back online and start playing 40k again. on note with this topic, is it possible to use this stratagem more than once? in the main rulebook it says on pg 215 bottom left under strategic discipline that stratagems used outside of phases can be used more than once. Is deployment considered a "Phase"? Im leaning that it is before the game starts so..... can we use this more than once? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Yes, take this twice plus dagger, to ambush with 8 units. holydiver 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urzu4 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 One last note... why does the hell hammer have a lasgun listed for its equipment O.o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyr13 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The hellhammer lasgun is mounted on the back of the turret. Not really useful, but kind of fun and fluffy. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 It's just 3 units in your army right? What about a knight? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenricusTyranicus Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 It's just 3 units in your army right? What about a knight? TALLARN units only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Worth a shot. It's just 3 units in your army right? What about a knight? TALLARN units only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakkamasta Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 How about combining the stratagem with the dagger relic? I've been brainstorming the idea of 4 Leman Russ variants with a 6 man unit of bullgryns with slab shields to bubble wrap them. It's expensive but it will work better than conscripts since they have high leadership and low model count so they are unlikely to run. It will put the opponent in a difficult position because anything that isn't a strong close combat unit will have no chance of getting past the bullgryns alive. It also provides good target saturation because small arms fire will bounce off the bullgryns meaning the opponent will have to dedicate stronger, higher AP weapons to kill them, which means they aren't shooting them at your tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) How about combining the stratagem with the dagger relic? I've been brainstorming the idea of 4 Leman Russ variants with a 6 man unit of bullgryns with slab shields to bubble wrap them. It's expensive but it will work better than conscripts since they have high leadership and low model count so they are unlikely to run. It will put the opponent in a difficult position because anything that isn't a strong close combat unit will have no chance of getting past the bullgryns alive. It also provides good target saturation because small arms fire will bounce off the bullgryns meaning the opponent will have to dedicate stronger, higher AP weapons to kill them, which means they aren't shooting them at your tanks. Can't be done. Bullgryn's are Militarum Auxilla, not Tallarn. EDIT for clarity: They also can't be taken with the dagger because they don't share the regiment of the character bringing them in, and Militarum Auxilla can't be selected, as mentioned in the Index FAQ. Edited October 12, 2017 by Tirak Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 What about giving the dagger to something that doesn't have regiment, a priest, enginseer, or astropath? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4906986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakkamasta Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 How about combining the stratagem with the dagger relic? I've been brainstorming the idea of 4 Leman Russ variants with a 6 man unit of bullgryns with slab shields to bubble wrap them. It's expensive but it will work better than conscripts since they have high leadership and low model count so they are unlikely to run. It will put the opponent in a difficult position because anything that isn't a strong close combat unit will have no chance of getting past the bullgryns alive. It also provides good target saturation because small arms fire will bounce off the bullgryns meaning the opponent will have to dedicate stronger, higher AP weapons to kill them, which means they aren't shooting them at your tanks. Ah nevermind. Thanks for catching that it completely slipped past me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4907030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I think your best bet here is a really nasty distraction carnifex (preferably one that moves fast). A good opponent will lock your deployment options out so you can't easily deploy a lot of big nasties in his backfield. What you might be able to do is get something cheap but dangerous like a hellhound close to his lines and force him to do something about it so that your gunline can do its business. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4907033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Bullgryns (as all Auxilla, etc.) *can* outflank with the dagger. Read the entry: [...] The Infantry unit must have the same <regiment> keyword as the bearer if the bearer has one. So, give the dagger to an Ogryn bodyguard, a Priest, a Commissar, whatever you like. And then bring your Ogryns with him. I'm personally toying with the idea of an all-Ogryn outflanking force. Hilarious and powerful. Ideally, they'll be partners to a Vietnam-style assault Straken+meltas+flamers in a Valkyrie for a thematic version of hammer and anvil. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4907040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I've had good success outflanking a Hellhound, Devildog and an Infantry or Veteran Squad. It doesn't break the enemy in its own, but it hits key targets, draws fire, and allows the main force to advance and envelop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4907059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Probably not the most effective but for rule of cool I'm thinking a priest with the dagger and a unit of crusaders would be fun alongside ambushing/outflanking Devil Dog or Demolisher unit and some troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4908296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakkamasta Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Anyone considered a unit of 3 armoured sentinels as one of the ambush units? Since they have to be Tallarn they won't suffer the movement penalty when arriving from reserves, and it could prove to be very annoying when a unit of 3 sentinels show up in your backfield and start shooting without penalty. It won't be easy to remove either with 18 T5 3+ wounds that are sneaking around a corner of the board. With their 8" move they could also be decent objective snatchers in the back field. There are probably more competitive options out there but I think a single unit of 3 supported by some of the suggestions mentioned earlier could be effective. It also just hit me that the sentinels are the perfect candidates for Hunter-killer missiles since they are guaranteed to fire them without a move penalty or the possibility of dying before they get to shoot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4908546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Probably not the most effective but for rule of cool I'm thinking a priest with the dagger and a unit of crusaders would be fun alongside ambushing/outflanking Devil Dog or Demolisher unit and some troops. Crusaders, maybe not. But Bullgryns may do the trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340290-what-is-the-best-units-to-ambush/#findComment-4908560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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