What is the best units to ambush ?

[Tirak]

Anyone considered a unit of 3 armoured sentinels as one of the ambush units? Since they have to be Tallarn they won't suffer the movement penalty when arriving from reserves, and it could prove to be very annoying when a unit of 3 sentinels show up in your backfield and start shooting without penalty. It won't be easy to remove either with 18 T5 3+ wounds that are sneaking around a corner of the board. With their 8" move they could also be decent objective snatchers in the back field.

 

There are probably more competitive options out there but I think a single unit of 3 supported by some of the suggestions mentioned earlier could be effective.

It also just hit me that the sentinels are the perfect candidates for Hunter-killer missiles since they are guaranteed to fire them without a move penalty or the possibility of dying before they get to shoot.

 

I feel Devil Dogs are better points spent. A Lascannon armored sentinel is going to come in at 60pts, with hunter killer you're up to 66. The BS of 4+ doesn't make lascannons an ideal choice for them. Devil Dogs are 101 points, 107 with Hunter Killer, and have a 24in D3 shot Melta Cannon. 66% of the time you'll have 2 or more shots, which mitigates the Guard ballistic problem. They're tougher, at T7, nearly double the wounds and they're faster. They also are slightly less than double the cost.

 

Outflanking Sentinels just doesn't play to their strengths, as none of their weapons really take advantage of the deepstrike. Multilasers and Plasma Cannons are 36in range, Autocannons, Lascannons and Missile Launchers all reach out to 48, meaning your outflank didn't put them in a position to shoot that otherwise would not have been easy to get to. And the Heavy Flamer comes in at range 8, meaning that you cannot outflank and torch a unit with it.

 

Meanwhile the Melta Cannon, clocking in at 24in has a harder time getting to properly screen vehicles, and so the ability to outflank with it can ensure the ability to hit hardened targets. This is further improved by the fact that Melta range for it is 12in, something not easily achieved against enemy heavy support vehicles, and the ability to Outflank into a position of 9in means you maximize your damage potential.

 

Scout Sentinels are a mainstay of any Guard brigade. They're cheap, fast and provide deepstrike protection, and because of that, their place is on the front line of your main force, not sneaking in the back door to provide an angle they don't need anyway. Investing even more points to armor them up is largely a waste of time, since you're losing the primary reason for taking them. Their poor BS means the powerful one shot weapons they can bring to a fight are far too finicky to get work done with. At the end of the day, they just do not compete with the 78pt Lascannon HWT which puts out 3 times the firepower, for less than 1/3 increased the price, or the tougher and faster Devil Dog which actually does need the outflank to be highly effective.

[dakkamasta]

Thanks for the in depth reply. You make pretty solid points when comparing them to other units. I'm well aware that their firepower is lackluster when compared to heavy weapon teams and yes I also swear by my scout sentinels leading from the front in most of my games.

 

I definitely think that hellhounds and devildogs are great choices to ambush but the problem is that taking too many may create problems with setting them up. Once you factor in the 7" from the table edge, enemy units preventing set up locations and terrain, having many tanks with a maximum range of 24" (and ideally you want 12") will start causing problems as a smart player will prevent some of them from being able to shoot their preferred targets. This is why I think the sentinels could work since they won't get in the way of your tanks by deploying in a far corner and still being able to shoot and harass. Then again an outflanking Leman Russ could also perform a similar role.

 

To be honest I have been trying to make armoured sentinels useful since the beginning of 8th to no avail. This is the only thing I've come up with that makes them useable. Not great, but at the very least decent for a semi-competitive/friendly game.

 

Thanks again for the well written reply. This is why I love the Guard forum.

 

 

[ThomasEll]

With this rule, can I choose to ambush a transport vehicle that has units embarked on it? If so, would that count as a single ambush (in the same way that units in transports only take up 1 deployment)?