Is there anything or anyone that you REFUSE to play against?

[m0nolith]

Generally speaking I'm pretty open minded when it comes to who and what I play against, no matter the faction, army, painted or unpainted, I just want to throw down some dice.

 

Recently tho, I was on the Death Korps of Krieg FB page.

One guy put up pictures of his DKoK figures that were painted in distinctly Waffen SS pea-dot camo pattern with a single S rune painted on the side of the helmet, and it hit me that if he started to put his figures down on the table across from me, I would put mine back in the case, apologize politely and tell him I have no interest in playing him.

 

Is there any type of player or army you would refuse to play against?

[deathspectersgt7]

Nit pickers . But Generally  come one come all lets play with our plastic toys and have some fun . I like playing against Historically themed Armies themed Armies . Played once against a US Cavalry themed IG Army, My comment to him was Custer wore a Arrow shirt. Then we commenced to having a good game. 

[Walter Payton]

I would draw the line at playing an army with an obviously racial-supremacist or Nazi aesthetic if I thought the army's player shared those views, because I have no interest in associating with people who think those things are cool.  

 

I wouldn't necessarily draw the line at playing an army with a fascist aesthetic (especially when GW is happy to use fascist symbolism in its official works!) if I thought that it was simply a matter of bad taste and not politics.

[Eddie Orlock]

Someone whose odor triggers my gag reflex when in close enough proximity to play the game.

 

Hasn't happened yet, but I've walked by games where one of the participants would've fulfilled the criterion.

[Claws and Effect]

On the DKoK example, if I knew the person and knew they didn't hold those views, I'd be okay with it.

 

I mean, it's pretty obvious where GW drew their inspiration from with the Death Korps, so painting them to reflect that wouldn't bother me. I'd consider that to be sort of like refusing to play against the German army in Flames of War.

 

I would probably refuse to play against anyone whose army has more than a handful of proxies.

[MoK]

If the army was painted up with Swastikas(sp?) and anti-Jewish/racist slogans then I would suspect they were someone to avoid. But since GW has a history of historical iconography, some of which could be construed as racist, I’d say a single S is nothing to worry about. That would be like saying you wouldn’t play against a Praetorian army because they look the British Army that fought against the Zulus or massacred Indian Mutineers after the Indian Mutiny or Catachans because they look like US special forces from during the Vietnam war, who took part in questionable actions against the North Vietnamese.

If you get offended by a paint scheme, you might not want to play a game where the principle aim is for your men to kill your opponents men.

[Walter Payton]

On the DKoK example, if I knew the person and knew they didn't hold those views, I'd be okay with it.

 

I mean, it's pretty obvious where GW drew their inspiration from with the Death Korps, so painting them to reflect that wouldn't bother me. I'd consider that to be sort of like refusing to play against the German army in Flames of War.

 

I would probably refuse to play against anyone whose army has more than a handful of proxies.

 

The DKoK are clearly based on the German Army of the Kaiserreich, specifically during WWI, not the Waffen-SS.

[m0nolith]

I would make the argument that the DKoK are entirely inspired by WW1 German + French armies, and not WW2.

They are the cannon fodder for the space meat grinder. They are trench warfare encarnate, that's why Vraks was a thing.

They are one of the most "40k" things in 40k.

 

If someone was to paint them in WW2 German colours, I wound have a problem with it. But this isn't the regular German soldier, this is the Waffen SS, so you know what you're going for here.

 

Edit: Alecto beat me to it :D

[Garreck]

If the army was painted up with Swastikas(sp?) and anti-Jewish/racist slogans then I would suspect they were someone to avoid. But since GW has a history of historical iconography, some of which could be construed as racist, I’d say a single S is nothing to worry about. That would be like saying you wouldn’t play against a Praetorian army because they look the British Army that fought against the Zulus or massacred Indian Mutineers after the Indian Mutiny or Catachans because they look like US special forces from during the Vietnam war, who took part in questionable actions against the North Vietnamese.

If you get offended by a paint scheme, you might not want to play a game where the principle aim is for your men to kill your opponents men.

Agree of course but I'll go further and say we don't even need to make historical references of horribleness to compare against since the majority of the factions *in the game* are representations of some of the most horrible aspects of humanity.

 

Judge the player. The protagonists in 40k are freakin genocidal xenophobes.

[Claws and Effect]

I just don't like making assumptions about the PLAYER based on how they painted their army.

 

If they said something in the course of the game that revealed them as actually holding those views, I might pack my models up. But I'm not going to assume "racist" when the answer could just as easily be "history buff".

[The Unseen]

Painted up like the SS?

Sure.

I'd probably tell them any actual hate symbols was in very poor taste, and if the person actually held views at all similar to said figures, we'd have a problem.

But I play the SS in Bolt Action, but I'd sooner punch someone in the actual uniform than anything.

 

Playing the villain can be fun.

Actually being one is another thing entirely.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

No. I'd love to crush a real fascist's army of space fascists.

 

I don't see any real problem with using or being inspired by real-life events. My traitorous (planned) P.D.F. force is (will be) heavily inspired by the Kronstadt Rebellion, para ejemplo, and several members of same are named after Toronto Maple Leafs.

[Shockmaster]

I probably would have done the same, if you want to play Nazis then that is why WW2 war games exist, one of which I play including against an opponent who plays SS but forcing offensive real world political symbols of that kind in to 40k just seems off to me and I would avoid that player in the future.

 

So yeah my view is inspired by the SS uniform colours fine but using the actual symbols is a no from me.

[the jeske]

no. I can't think of a single person like that. If I could I would play anyone, maybe the exeption would be a hypothetical perma banned person showing up at a store and still trying to play, but in my over 30 years of gaming, I have never seen it happen. People kicked out never come back.

 

I would of course not play someone, if it could mean jail. Like playing in germany vs a pro nazi painted army, risking a fine for "propageting nazi propaganda".

[m0nolith]

Painted up like the SS?

Sure.

I'd probably tell them any actual hate symbols was in very poor taste, and if the person actually held views at all similar to said figures, we'd have a problem.

But I play the SS in Bolt Action, but I'd sooner punch someone in the actual uniform than anything.

Playing the villain can be fun.

Actually being one is another thing entirely.

And yet, I have no problem playing against the SS in Flames of War or Bolt Action because those games have a historical backdrop. It's a historical game you're playing and they should be reflected in it, but you really have to go out of your way to include the SS, a real world orginazation who have a ton of ideology attached to them, in a fictional Sci-Fi game.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

The swastika isn't a solely Nazi thing, either. It has significance to, IIRC, hindu culture, it's a general good-luck charm and there was once a hockey team (1905 - 1916) in Nova Scotia called the Windsor Swastikas. 

[Garreck]

Seems an unnecessary abstraction to label historical fascists in historical games okay, fictional fascist in fictional games okay, but draw a line at historical fascists in fictional games. The ideals of the SS were unspeakably atrocious, but I find it dubious to draw boundaries around where and how we are allowed to pretend to be bad guys.

[Captain Idaho]

This topic is skirting the line, folks. Just a friendly heads up that this sort of topic can go south.

[Shockmaster]

I just don't see the need to paint any real world symbol that you know will be deeply offensive to many people on your fictional soldiers, historical games are completely different as the aim is realism.

 

I believe our hobby should be inclusive as it gets a bad enough unfair reputation from those who don't play as it is, so why needlessly go out of the way to make certain people feel not welcome when those symbols have no reason to be in the fictional 40k setting.

 

I am not going to call the person who did it a racist as there is a very good chance they have not painted them in that way for that reason but I would talk to them and explain why I don't wish to play across from their army.

[m0nolith]

Seems an unnecessary abstraction to label historical fascists in historical games okay, fictional fascist in fictional games okay, but draw a line at historical fascists in fictional games. The ideals of the SS were unspeakably atrocious, but I find it dubious to draw boundaries around where and how we are allowed to pretend to be bad guys.

One is a game of fiction, the other is a historical game.

I dont have a problem seeing an army of SS, painted accurately in SS peadoyt camo pattern (very hard to paint on 15mm scale figures) across the table from me in a game of Flames of War, but I would have a problem seeing them painted in bright neon pink because you didn't even try to make them historically accurate and it's extremely immersion breaking.

 

It's the opposite if I was to see it in 40k. Pink DKoK? I don't know about your aesthetic choice, but go for it, you do you!

The Imperium is a sci-fi general totalitarian feudal gothic dystopia, not specifically a Fascist dystopia, nor s Soviet Communist one, nor anything specific from the modern world. It's far closer to the Fudeal systems of old than anything from the last century.

It's the Dark Ages in space.

[the jeske]

Wait, but wouldn't that mean that the acceptance of playing or not playing the game vs someone is not based around rules and law, but personal taste. Wouldn't this make every pick up game drasticly random, because to one dude pink vostroyans maybe ok, and the the other they are an abomination ?

[Lay]

The only paint job that offends me is no paint job at all. And I play even against that.

 

How the person that owns the army behaves is more important.

[Garreck]

Well I definitely get not wanting your immersion broken.  Entirely subjective of course, but I get it.

 

I'm trying to think of something or someone I would refuse to play against.  Most of my play happens in-store, so there's already a degree of controls in place...I could wax hypothetical about some extreme weird circumstance but in practical terms I've yet to find a reason to turn down an opponent.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

The Imperium is unequivocally a fascist state.

[m0nolith]

Wait, but wouldn't that mean that the acceptance of playing or not playing the game vs someone is not based around rules and law, but personal taste. Wouldn't this make every pick up game drasticly random, because to one dude pink vostroyans maybe ok, and the the other they are an abomination ?

It's not random at all.

I'm not going to play you if you paint your army as blatant Nazis in a fictional game, simple as that.