Lord Morgrim Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Is he a must take to make us competitive? Can get we get by with TPDs and some enginseers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogfender Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 yup Lord Morgrim 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Morgrim Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 succinct and to the point i like it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos_Adephus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I'd say no, I think a perfectly viable list can be without him (except Mars, Mars is weak sauce without him). He is a great force multiplier of course, but with the different Forgeworlds and Stratagems and more you can make a very solid list without Cawl. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I do think Cawl suits a certain type of list. My Cawl Wall is proficient with him and mediocre without him. I think something that would have been really interesting is if Mars would have got the strategum that Ultras did using 3CPs for rerolling all misses (which still makes Cawl superior). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithrilForge Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 actually Dogfender, i'm not sure what you said yes to...he asked two questions in that sentence...which did you agree with - Cawl's a must have ?.. or We can get by with TPD's and Enginseers ?... I agree that Cawl forces us to choose a certain army build most certainly but if you sit back and think outside that box i'm sure lil nuggets of inspiration will reveal themselves... as stated, before all the new forge world dogma's and stratagems Cawl would've been an Auto include,not necessarily so now... Cheers, Mithril Prot 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda79 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If your list and playstyle involves Lots of robots onagers usually hitting with 3-4+ bs meaning you invest average 900+ points he is. You need Cawl to provide a smaller margin in results. 4+ is an issue for such an invest. And in most cases of onahers since they are d3 shots etc you care to invest on rerolls and antiair. Why not he is a beast . But there are lists with out him I believe semi competitive cause wrath of mars is good and destroyers and kastelans need Cawl Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Ive yet to try out the new codex (running a couple of games this weekend though) Stygies infiltraion shtick and the -1 to hit across the board though seems very strong to me. Id also really like to try out a metallica horde list heavy on vanguard and priests (pack as many assault weapons as possible basically), backed up by some dragoons..not sure if itd be too squishy bt the thought of loads of them flooding across the board (and the sheer number of dice they can put out at close range) would be fun. If only dragoons werent so expensive (cashwise) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4907982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Yea I have Dragoons in every list. I love them. Cawl doesn’t suit a list full of Dragoons. Really taking Cawl usually means a heavy investment in slow, expensive, shooty units that must perform. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4908037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If you want to unleash some truely hellish dakka then yes for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4908050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odds.043 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) I had a quick, low points game on Thursday against my friends dark Eldar My list: 2 onagers: one with neutron laser one with icarus array Cawl And 2 units of vanguard: one with 8 omnispex and an archive rifle, one with 9 omnispex, 2 plaz calivers, a taser goad and a phosphor pistol. VS a tantalus full of kabalites and an Archon, a venom with kabalites, and 3 reavers. In short: I didn't even need the skitarii. Turn one I went first and popped the tantalus with my onagers thanks to rerolls, turn two I popped the venom,turn 3 I killed the kabalites that came out of the tantalus, turn 4 I killed his Archon. We called it after that, since all he had left was 4 kabalites and 3 reavers. My skitarii didn't even fire a shot. TLDR: Cawl + artillery = stupid dakka Edit: point of clarity, I wasn't using codex rules, just points, since DE don't have a codex, and I'm nice. Edited October 14, 2017 by Odds.043 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4908592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeStinyFiSh Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Carl is an auto include in a Mars list since the Dogma alone is kind of meh without him. But since there are 6 other good Forgeworlds that are not even allowed to field Carl, my answer is: No, he is not an auto include in each and every Ad Mech list anymore. Lord Morgrim and Xisor 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4908670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorin Helm-splitter Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I don't believe Cawl is a must take (unless you choose to go with Mars' dogma), but I think its a lot easier to design an army around him. He just has a clear set of strengths and really benefits gun line strategies. I think Stygies VIII is really strong, and if I'm being entirely honest I have to admit that if competitiveness is the main criteria you may want to check out Guard they just seem to be the best option atm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4908914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellabelly Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I guess that boils down to if you want to be competitive, or be competitive with your chosen army. I imagine plenty of folk fall into the second camp. I'm finding Cawl a real pain, actually. I want to build a Mars list because I can see a lot of utility from dual canticles for aggressive play from infiltrators and vanguard, dragoons etc. But every time I build a list it needs to have Cawl to make dual canticles work. Then I just obliged to fill my points out with robots as anything else feels like shooting myself in the foot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4908944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I'm playing a lot without Cawl but with Mars and I really do agree with some here and really Mars -needs- Cawl. Otherwise the arm is all about one Strategem Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4909186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I've only played one game and it was with the index, but I can solidly say without Cawl my shooting would've been pretty crap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4909888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomma Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 What setup would you run without Cawl? Would double dominus work? B. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4909898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Really, it depends on how many CP you want. If your force is relatively light on CP needs (Lucius comes to mind) then you can get away with a single Battalion, which means x2 Dominus is about all you'd need. Stygies VIII can get away with less CP, too. Really, when looking at HQ other than B.C. it's just a matter of whether you want a pure healbot (Enginseer) or need the buffs as well. The Dominus is roughly 3x the cost so you need to make sure you're getting significant mileage out of his aura and guns, otherwise an Enginseer is a better choice just to fill obligatory slots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4909970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 The other forge worlds get a lot of powerful mobility/ durability buffs & options to compensate on the lack of Cawl. Usually things like Dragoons/ Sicarians are better with other FWs. Mars is pretty much sit and shoot and bring some mobility if need be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340342-is-cawl-a-must-take/#findComment-4910013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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