Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Yes yes I know...shadowsword blah blah blah. Im asking about games where I dont need to melt knights or other big nasties. Im looking at the Banehammer and Banesword. The banehammer has the 60" gun that halves movement so it has a much more tactical use then turning stuff into craters. The banesword on the other hand is a slightly weaker shadowsword so instead of titanic stuff it can murder every other vehicle in the game with ease. All 3 options cost the same base points at 404pts so they can be swapped easy. All of them would be supported in a Supreme Command as well with psykers, tech-priest, and a trojan Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmic66 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Shadowsword m8. Too many land raiders, fliers etc to not have it. Draws heaps of fire so my 5 russes do the real lifting. When you absolutely gotta kill a vehicle, its there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) Shadowsword. Strength 16 is a magical number, allowing you to wound anything on 2s. That includes Primarchs, Landraiders, Knights ect. Heavy 3D3 shots means potentially 6 S16 shots, if you take it as a Catachan you get to reroll that if you do poorly. AP-5 means that you strip 2+ saves off completely, which means not only will you hit on 2s, they have to fall back on their invuln saves. And then there's the real gutpunch, 2d6 damage each shot. In a perfect world you can deal 108 damage to a single target. In any large list you are going to run into some form of large beast, whether it be Mortarion, or a Knight Titan or a Landraider or a Spartan Assault Tank. The Shadowsword deals with them all and does so better than any other tank. Edited October 14, 2017 by Tirak Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Bah damnit people lol I figured thats how this topic would go...I was planning on doing a superheavy with barebones LR's with battlecannons, maybe some artillery tanks, and a crap ton of infantry. I was going to go Catachan anyway. Since that decision is pretty much made anyone one have a sample starter list I could tweak? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) If you don't want to run a Shadowsword, then picking whichever one you like best is fine. It's just that the Volcano cannon is so wonderfully good that it's hard not to pick up at 404pts. At that price, it's cheaper than a Baneblade with a much better gun. The question asked when you take a Baneblade variant is "Will this do better than an equal pointed Leman Russ". The problem you're going to run into is the answer to that question, especially now with the new Grinding Advance rule, is not really. The normal Battlecannon now fires, effectively, 2d6 shots. Baneblade Cannons fire at 3d6. The trouble is the baneblade is the price of 3-4 Leman Russes, meaning it's competing against 6-8d6 shots. It's strength is 9 compared to 8, which means it's 15% more effective at shooting toughness 8 units, but it if you're looking to play the "i don't need to kill Knight Titan's" game, then that 15% doesn't come up often for the premium you spend. Its toughness is no higher and neither is its save. 3 to 4 Leman Russes are actually more survivable than a single Baneblade because of things like Stormswords or Mortarion who can roflestomp a single high wound model in a single round of shooting/assaulting, whereas you're more likely to overkill a Russ and thus waste wounds dealt. Edited October 14, 2017 by Tirak Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 If you don't want to run a Shadowsword, then picking whichever one you like best is fine. It's just that the Volcano cannon is so wonderfully good that it's hard not to pick up at 404pts. At that price, it's cheaper than a Baneblade with a much better gun. The question asked when you take a Baneblade variant is "Will this do better than an equal pointed Leman Russ". The problem you're going to run into is the answer to that question, especially now with the new Grinding Advance rule, is not really. The normal Battlecannon now fires, effectively, 2d6 shots. Baneblade Cannons fire at 3d6. The trouble is the baneblade is the price of 3-4 Leman Russes, meaning it's competing against 6-8d6 shots. It's strength is 9 compared to 8, which means it's 15% more effective at shooting toughness 8 units, but it if you're looking to play the "i don't need to kill Knight Titan's" game, then that 15% doesn't come up often for the premium you spend. Its toughness is no higher and neither is its save. 3 to 4 Leman Russes are actually more survivable than a single Baneblade because of things like Stormswords or Mortarion who can roflestomp a single high wound model in a single round of shooting/assaulting, whereas you're more likely to overkill a Russ and thus waste wounds dealt. I see your point and you have convinced me lol shadowsword it is then...now to come up with the rest of a list haha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnboardG1 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Build a Shadowsword and then magnetise the gun so you can take any of the other casemate variants. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Build a Shadowsword and then magnetise the gun so you can take any of the other casemate variants. Ahh good call! So im messing around in battlescribe and I can actually fit a Supreme Command with a Brigade. But now im thinking Supreme Command+Battalion+Spearhead so I can move around some heavy support units and such. New question...whats a good size Bullgryn unit? How are they supported? Do you just run them up the field and pray to the Emperor they dont get shot off the table? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyr13 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Personally, Id go with a banehammer. Mostly cause using the shadowsword feels really... bad right now. Its so obviously the most destructive choice, and the superheavies got buffed anyway... So using something else just seems a bit nicer. Plus, the banehammer comes with some nifty tricks up its sleeve. The movement penalty and transport capacity (+firing platform) certainly make it a more interesting choice than the point and click volcano cannon... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Magnets! :D Then you can try them all and see which one you like the best!! ;) Bullgryns? At least 1 squad of 3 w/ priest. Increase as needed. Rarely have I struggled with that. Not to say more wouldn't be fun. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Magnets! Then you can try them all and see which one you like the best!! Bullgryns? At least 1 squad of 3 w/ priest. Increase as needed. Rarely have I struggled with that. Not to say more wouldn't be fun. I was thinking 5 buffed with a priest but then i realized i would have to walk them up the field and that might not be so fun lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Currently I run 3 priest, psyker and lord commissar in a valk Im considering a second squad of 4 in a chimera. Although I'm sure if in good conscience I could do that in most friendly games. If you do want to take large squads walk them up with a psyker or two and cast psychic barrier + night shrowd and enjoy the look on your opponents face as 6" at a time a wall of bullgryns slowly advance on their position with a Sv1+ and -1 to hit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Currently I run 3 priest, psyker and lord commissar in a valk Im considering a second squad of 4 in a chimera. Although I'm sure if in good conscience I could do that in most friendly games. If you do want to take large squads walk them up with a psyker or two and cast psychic barrier + night shrowd and enjoy the look on your opponents face as 6" at a time a wall of bullgryns slowly advance on their position with a Sv1+ and -1 to hit Haha yeah I was considering that option. Though the power would compete with being cast on the Shadowsword. What about that giant forge world transport? Havent heard much about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 The gorgon? It's currently OOP and AFAIK all it really does is carry 40 guys into the enemy army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 No the smaller one. Carries 35. Havent heard of many people using it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrowmaster Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 The crassus? Not sure about that one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 The crassus? Not sure about that oneYeah thats the one. Lookes it up on battlescribe. Its a LoW choice which is kinda nuts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 (edited) The crassus? Not sure about that one crassus? crassus? You mean the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT (never let the meme die!) Honestly, right now as said shadowsword is the best, theres a few other baneblade hulls which are also good, but the problem with the FW stuff is it was effectively pointed out and ruled out to be compared to the leman russ and they did that pretty fairly, up to the point grinding advance totally changed the game. Malcador and mecharius tanks both are now overcosted in my view compared to the trusty leman russ and so, they should get a look at them (personally i think they both should have grinding advance for giiggles, but thats me) As said above, buy a baneblade, use magnets, can make any varient you like, theres a few tutorials out there for doing this. As for transports, crassus is overly expencive, gorgon is expencive, but can work well with guard in some ways in my view (ambsuh with a gorgon, dump out 50 very angry dudes, cackle). Sadly gorgon is OOP for now at least, it might return who knows. Edited October 14, 2017 by Mitchverr Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Magnets! Then you can try them all and see which one you like the best!! Bullgryns? At least 1 squad of 3 w/ priest. Increase as needed. Rarely have I struggled with that. Not to say more wouldn't be fun. I was thinking 5 buffed with a priest but then i realized i would have to walk them up the field and that might not be so fun lol Choosing one of the Baneblade variants with transport capacity would offer a solution here. duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Stormlord + bullgryns would be scary Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Stormlord + bullgryns would be scaryThat is true...didnt think about that. The cassus or whatever is half the points of a stormlord thou. The gorgon is waaay to much transport overkill Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4908948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mertbl Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 The one with the 1/2 movement gun has a transport capacity too. The main gun is not really a slouch either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4909201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 The one with the 1/2 movement gun has a transport capacity too. The main gun is not really a slouch either.True i didnt really think about that. Not sure whats worth transporting around. It would be a minimum unit of Bullgryns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/340374-help-with-choosing-superheavy/#findComment-4909215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now