Collaborative Astra Militarum Creation Project

[Zhiv]

 I can work with 

 

[*] Al-arach 
[*] Cthonol
[*] Tekarn
[*] Perkuni 
[*] Tachoman 

 

All have distinct feeling that can be explored and expanded.

 

I have some issues with

[*] Phyruss seem too much like Cadians

[*] Justus seem too much like mini comissars

[*] Asark Zeta Too Ogryn

[Doctor Perils]

Might as well give my choices:

PRO

Cthonol: they don't look like your bog standard imperial guard regiments, they offer good storytelling potential both on the narrative and "historical" aspects, and they'd be possible to model using only games workshop stuff (if those people that mentioned trying out the modelling side don't want third party stuff). Their grim sciencefictiony look is perfect for 40k and seems to offer more diversity then most of the other regiments in my minds eye.

 

ANTI:

Tachoman, Justus and Phyruss: I just don't think they offer anything that hasn't already been done by Games Workshop and Black Library

[Servant of Dante]

Just a head start up, unless someone comes in and stops me (not that I need stoping imo :D ) the Sisters Order (my suggested name being the Order of the Weeping Heart) has something of an obsession with the Reign of Blood (as in repenting for it and stopping it from recurring) and that comes with a rather low view of abhumans (well, if I’m honest that’s partly just me). So a regiment with a bunch of Abhumans (or really any abhumans at all), could be fun. Same goes for sanctioned psykers :P Just abhumans you cant live without (at least the navigator and astropath varieties).

 

I’m liking the idea of the slaver regiment, sounds really neat, for whatever my opinion is worth :D

Edited November 20, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Zhiv]

Just a head start up, unless someone comes in and stops me (not that I need stoping imo ) the Sisters Order (my suggested name being the Order of the Weeping Heart) has something of an obsession with the Reign of Blood (as in repenting for it and stopping it from recurring) and that comes with a rather low view of abhumans (well, if I’m honest that’s partly just me). So a regiment with a bunch of Abhumans (or really any abhumans at all), could be fun. Same goes for sanctioned psykers Just abhumans you cant live without (at least the navigator and astropath varieties).

 

I’m liking the idea of the slaver regiment, sounds really neat, for whatever my opinion is worth

Disclaimer: Honest curiosity, I feel like I have missed something.

 

Could you point out the connection between Reign of Blood and hate of abhumans. As far as I understood it Reign of Blood a.k.a Age of Apostasy was more about corruption of Ecclesiarchy rather than abhumans as per se. If the rules regarding abhumans were laxer this time, it's more due to corruption of the Imperial Cult rather than danger posed by the 'mutants'.  I am not saying there isn't connections, but I am having hard time drawing the lines in my mind. 

[Servant of Dante]

Oh, no I don’t think there’s a direct explicit connection. Like I said, this is partly just my personal tastes in the level of Puritan I like my Sisters to be :P but the idea would be that these Sisters, being obsessed with ideas of purity and repentance, would be less willing than usual Sisters to work with abhumans, even sanctioned ones, as they are by nature not purely human. They might be extra concerned that a commander who deploys abhuman troops is likely to stray from the Emperor’s light or something like that as well. So yes the extra distrust would be more of a byproduct than a necessary facet of focus on the RoB.

 

Edit: to elaborate, the RoB was humanity (especially the Sororitas) turning from the Emperor, letting itself be led away from his word by Vandire simply because he had a title. Therefore these Sisters don’t take “I have X rank or Y sanctioning” as proof that you aren’t a heretic (even less so than your average Sister. And again, part of it is I just enjoy the idea that Sisters are reluctant to fight alongside abhumans.

 

Edit2: in fact if you wanted to you could probably argue it in the other direction, since they’re more worried about people exploiting their station to go against the Emperor’s will maybe they don’t care so much if you’re an abhuman as long as you’re a model servant of the Imperium. Just that I’m not as interested in going in that direction.

 

So overall, I guess it’s best to just ignore me :P I’m interested to see where this regiment project goes. I need to get on the fluff for the Order of the Weeping Heart! :D

 

Edit 3: I wouldn’t be surprised if Vandire was lax on regulating abhumans and psykers, which could justify my viewpoint, but that would be speculation since I don’t personally know of any fluff explicitly saying he did that. It does however fit the pattern of his known actions.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Commissar Molotov]

Thorn, thank you for giving this thread some impetus and pushing it forward. 

 

I do personally like the Phyrussian, and while I agree that they look generic, that in itself is no bad thing. Potentially, it allows us to look at their society or their method of making war. 

 

Beyond that, I do think that the Cthonol could present us with interesting options. 

 

I do think that we have scope in our project to potentially feature more than one Imperial Guard force in our campaign, though perhaps one should be the primary focus. 

[Doctor Perils]

No problem: you're still in command though ;)

 

I do think that we have scope in our project to potentially feature more than one Imperial Guard force in our campaign, though perhaps one should be the primary focus. 

I think that would be a good idea :)

 

So far, these are the scores:

• Phyruss: ---+ = -2
• Al-arach: ++ = +2
• Justus: --- = -3
• Asark Zeta: +- = +0
• Cthonol: +++ = +3
• Tekarn: ++ = +2
• Perkuni: + = +1
• Tachoman: ++- = +1

I think at this point, with three down votes and no up-votes, Justus could probably be abandoned

Phyruss also has three down votes, and Commissar Molotov, you're the only one to have voted up: you're reasoning is that it could allow us to look into their society and way of making war... but can't we do that with the others also?

 

It may be a good idea to limit any more voting until Friday night (GMT) - a week and a half is a good amount of time, and that would allow us to move on with the project during the weekend :)

[Wargamer]

I vote Cthonol. And not just because Anvil void troops look like they would fit these guys really well. ;)

[Doctor Perils]

Right, that's a total of 4 upvotes for Cthonol, with no down-votes - therefore, it looks like we'll be rolling with Cthonol !

 

So, though describing the world of Cthonol would be one of the most urgent and important things to do, I think it would first be interesting to look into what kinds of regiments we want to raise? If people want to look into cavalry, trenchfighters or even sappers, that will then be able to inform us to some extent on what kinds of terrain the world has (for example)

 

When I look at the regiments' uniform, to me it screams that they generally don't get into tanks too much (the suit is just too bulky), but their skullcaps tell me that they make use of heavy weapons or artillery, which could be a starting point

[Wargamer]

It's worth pointing out that "one thousand attacks in five years" equates to around one attack every two days. Frankly, it seems unlikely this is referring to the planet Cthonol, but rather the specific regiment, presumably while on garrison duty.

 

Still, this is potentially a vibe we can carry into Cthonol in general - a world renowned for its grim defiance. Perhaps the "five year onslaught" was part of a war on Cthonol itself.

 

Looking further at the sample soldier, I've been trying to decide what that backpack is for. It's bulky, rectangular shape appears inefficient at first glance, but it would allow for maximum internal volume. So, why would you want to maximise storage space?

 

We also have between one and four lights (assuming the circles on the backpack are lights). At the minimum, we have the chest mounted light. If this is typical of the Cthonol uniform that suggests a night world or a tunnel fighting regiment. Both are fitting, given the name invokes the word "Chthonic" - of or pertaining to the Underworld - and "Cthulu", a mythos full of darkness and buried evils.

 

An alternative, of course, is simply to have buried evils within Cthonol itself. Perhaps Cthonol is a Necron Tomb World, and for five years they endured a thousand successive waves of Necron invaders? The resulting campaigns to cleanse the labyrinths would involve prolonged operations in darkened tunnels, hence the massive backpacks.

 

Anyway, this is all a bit scattergun. But hopefully someone can find something worth building on in here.

[Wargamer]

So looking at the reference picture from the first post, I noticed that the famous armoured regiments section includes a "Cthonian gunner". Could this be intended as the same planet as the Cthonol regiment?

 

Comparing the two side by side there are a few similarities, but also some differences.

 

Similarities:

• Gunner has shoulder pockets and thick, industrial gloves. Cthonol has matching thigh pockets and thick, industrial boots.
• Gunner has a close fitting skull cap, which might be a stripped down version of the Cthonol helmet.

Differences:

• Gunner lacks the loose overcoat of the Cthonol regiment.
• Gunner lacks the armoured collar of the Cthonol regiment.
• Gunner has a chest-mounted vox unit linked via a thick pipe, although this could be specific to tank crews.
• Gunner lacks any kind of backpack.

It is important to note that the Cadian tank crew from the era of this picture were quite different to Cadian infantry, having completely different helmets and chest armour. As such, the notable differences between Cthonol Regiment and Cthonian Gunner do not necessarily mean they are two distinct forces.

 

If we imagine we were creating a regiment that was intended to have a model range, then incorporating a tradition of mechanised warfare makes a lot of sense; why would GW produce a Guard regiment and then explicitly tell people they rarely if ever use tanks?

Edited November 26, 2017 by Wargamer

[walter h]

The idea that it was a tomb world awakening,seems very interesting ,and the trooper in the image is infantry. The world might be a hostile environment,and it could be tunnels beneath the surface where people live ,and work,and it was here where they encountered the ,Necrons. The gunner,is an example of the tanks that fought in the tombs.The ,Russ is environmentally secure.

[Wargamer]

I'm leaning away from hostile environment troops myself. It's been done before; we already have Steel Legion and Krieg for that, plus Vostroyans largely fill that niche with their gas masks even if the world isn't explicitly toxic. No, these guys could fill a new niche we haven't really seen before - expeditionary troops. Long tour soldiers who operate for extended periods without resupply.

 

We don't need yet more gas mask wearing troops hauling oxygen tanks around. But what about pioneer infantry hauling a month's worth of supplies with them? What about a regiment that fills their Chimeras with tank shells instead of troops? Perhaps these are the hostile environment troops you send in when you cannot rely on easy supply routes and so you need your troops to operate for weeks, maybe even months without resupply?

[Doctor Perils]

I personally find that's an interesting idea. Perhaps they are often sent alongside Rogue Traders?

[Wargamer]

That would certainly be an interesting variation we haven't seen before. I think it'd be worth looking into the Cthulu mythos and see if there's any themes that we can borrow there. My knowledge of the mythos is limited, but I understand it often involves people collecting artefacts that really should be left alone. That certainly ties in with Rogue Traders!

[Wargamer]

Alrighty, sorry for constantly double posting, but this regimental concept is really starting to fire my synapses and it's so nice to not have writer's block for once! 

 

The Cthonol Guard were an expeditionary force raised from the planet Cthonia assigned to a Rogue Trader expedition operating on the fringes of Imperial space. Sent to investigate a lost Human world, upon arrival the Cthonol Guard found the planet devoid of life. Its cities were empty, its crops unharvested and left to rot, and while there were signs of struggle no bodies were to be found.

 

Shortly after discovering a subterranean system beneath the ruins, the Cthonol Guard came under attack by unknown forces. The Rogue Trader vanished within an hour of the attack, and soon every digsite and explorator party were reporting hostile forces. Reports came that the Rogue Trader's starship was able to send a distress signal, but then all contact with the vessel was lost.

 

Thus began the long war. Alone, fragmented and with little hope of reinforcement, the Cthonol Guard began a rearguard action that would go down in Imperial history as one of the most heroic actions ever undertaken. Every day the Guard would sally forth into the ruins to fortify, set traps or scavenge for materials; every night, the horrors would emerge anew. Sometimes they would strike at isolated outposts, launching hit and run attacks to carry away handfuls of men. Other times they would strike all across the planet simultaneously, seeking to wipe out the Guard as they had the native population.

 

Upon arrival the Cthonol Guard had numbered a quarter million men, with full access to artillery, tanks and support vehicles. Yet as weeks turned to months and months to years, their numbers dwindled. After five long years the forces of the Adeptus Astartes arrived, expecting to find nothing of the expedition. Instead, they found ten thousand men clinging on with grim determination. Moreover, the Cthonol Guard had not sat idle. Time and again they had stormed the tunnels, rooting out the great crypts where their unliving foes hid during the day to blast them apart with demolition charges. Those ragged survivors were offered respite, but they refused; they would have their peace when the world was taken for the Imperium.

 

Following the destruction of the Necrons, the commanding officer was debriefed by Segmentum Command and the Inquisition. When asked what had happened during those five years of isolation, it is reported he replied with a single word: "Victory."

[Commissar Molotov]

I think potentially we need to consider if we are detailing "a" regiment - or a recruiting world which in itself can dispatch multiple regiments to the campaign that will be detailed in the Unity Project. 

 

I'm completely happy for the Cthonol to be our primarily focus for the time being when it comes to the Astra Militarum. It makes sense, therefore, for us to consider the sort of world the Cthonol come from - we can then potentially consider a couple of "Regiments of Renown" that have made the Cthonol somewhat famous in their region of space. 

[Wargamer]

I'd say the whole world - Guard are usually defined by their planet, not single regiments (Tanith 1st being the sole exception I can think of, as there are no other Tanith regiments).

[Doctor Perils]

Yes, I think that we'll want to describe the recruitment world - whether we want to later focus on a single regiment or not.

 

However, my view is that finding out what kinds of regiments come from the world might be an easy toe in the water to test the temperature : if people want to explore tank regiments, then it'll indicate that cthonol probably still has a fair amount of industry (keeping civilian vehicles going on the planet); if members want to look into Cthonolian/Cthonian rough riders, then it'll indicate that the planet may have some strong martial traditions, and/or a relatively feudal society; perhaps other members see the array of lights and apparatus and think that regiments from Cthonol are used to fighting underground or in low-light environments, probably because that's what life is like on Cthonol.

[Wargamer]

I'd also like to establish our plural; "Cthonolian" feels so clumsy to me.

 

Cthonian rolls off the tongue nicely imo, but I can see where people might think that sounds do different so... Cthonoli? Or does that sound too much like an Elder God's pasta dish?

Edited November 29, 2017 by Wargamer

[Doctor Perils]

Well Cthonian presents the risk of confusion with the inhabitants of Cthonia

 

Cthonish ? Cthonoi ?

[Zhiv]

Well Cthonian presents the risk of confusion with the inhabitants of Cthonia

 

Cthonish ? Cthonoi ?

 

I like Cthonish.  But I am not native so   me. 

 

Also one thing we might want to consider if our regiment is 'small numbers' i.e. Cthonian 2nd/3rd with likely long and prestigious history or 'big numbers' Cthnonian 233rd that no-one has ever heard about, and that actually might be clerical error.  Also, how long Cthonia has levied guard regiments? Are the regiments with hundreds of years of service under their name?  Or are Cthonian regiments more like Tanith first and only?

[Commissar Molotov]

I would think Cthonol is the plural, actually. They are the "Cthonol Regiment", in the way that you would have the "Cadian 221st" - which perhaps suggests we need to look at the planet's name, rather than the regiments' - perhaps Cthon or Cthol? The point about confusion with the Cthonian homeworld of the Luna Wolves is an interesting one, though inhabitants of the 41st millennium may not know that. Perhaps in the very dim and distant past, this planet was one that was reconquered for the Imperium by the Luna Wolves?

[Servant of Dante]

“Cadian” isn’t plural, it’s the adjective form of Cadia right?

[Wargamer]

As mentioned before, the 3rd Edition Codex already mentioned the existence of "Cthonian" regiments, suggesting there is another Cthonia out there.