Space Marine Battles/Conquests

[Xisor]

What were your issues with Asaheim and Stormcaller?

 

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is how come Battle of the Fang is almost universally loved, but Asaheim and Stormcaller seem to rub a lot of SW fans the wrong way?

For my part (not being much of a Wolf fan), I think Battle of the Fang has two-fold appeal. Foremost: it's a really well told, interesting story. Secondly: It also covers a period of time almost nobody goes for (M32, M33?), so has the allure of the Heresy to it in filling in stuff you don't already know.

 

Whereas, Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller are much more plain stories - they're about a very small cast of Space Wolves, many of whom are particularly sombre, even verging on moribund. I still think they're cracking novels, and well done, but it's difficult to be enthusiastic to them as, by and large, the bulk of the story is about five or six nobodies on backwater nobody planets doing nothing that makes it into the history books.

 

As said, with that in mind, they're still fine stories, but there's much less in them to 'appeal to everyone', much fewer big names.

 

They're more intimate, and I found them fascinating - but it's easy to see why the monumentally remarkable, action-packed nature of Battle of the Fang takes the place it does. (More, I think it's properly a 'third book' in the A Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns trilogy, one that as Wraight himself put it: somewhat bridges the gap between the Heresy and 40k.)

[Sandlemad]

EDIT: I guess what I'm asking is how come Battle of the Fang is almost universally loved, but Asaheim and Stormcaller seem to rub a lot of SW fans the wrong way?

 

Xisor covers the nature of the stories themselves but some SW fans also got annoyed about chapter organisational things like Ragnar assigning new members to a grey hunters pack or having a hunter carry a heavy weapon.

[b1soul]

I'm still not quite getting over the idea that someone didn't care much for Legion of the Damned! (Easily the best, in my esteem.)

BTW...why do you think LotD is easily the best.

 

In all honesty, I though it was OK but nothing stood out. I do remember a scout being overwhelmed by plague zombies (or something like that)...and a lot of IF successors going at it at the Feast of Blades.

 

Probably the most memorable bits to me.

[Xisor]

I thought it was impeccably written. Perhaps, even more than Helsreach, the most intimate and intense of the SMB books. The personal focus on your main man, the creativity of the daemons in the tide ("raw-boned ganglefiend"), the despair and emotions through it.

 

As such, it read to me as a very tight, focussed book. Action packed too, in a way I'd not enjoyed before (mainly as extended fight sequences usually bore me to tears), though again I think that's mainly to do with the writing itself.

 

I also thought it was thematically very appealing. Three damned legions, the setting itself, the internal politics, the fresh look at an entirely new (to popular reading) chapter.

 

The heroics of a 'man alone' Thunderfire Cannon, Punisher, crashing through walls and saving the day.

 

Also, I thought it was an extremely neat take on the Legion of the Damned faction, a perfect way of exploring them without giving much/anything away.

[Ogun]

I really enjoyed Legion of the Damned as well. 

 

Its opening chapter has some painfully stilted exposition, but from then on it is a well crafted and paced tale. In particular, Sanders' world building and creation of atmosphere is extremely well done. Doom and despair build throughout the story, sort of like Zulu but steeped in 40k grim dark. I also liked how the madness caused by the Warp's effects on mortals was portrayed as a war winning weapon in its own right. 

[Kelborn]

Huh...never considered LotD to be that good. Maybe I'll grab it one day. :)

 

Thanks, guys!

[Roomsky]

Haven't delved too far into the series, though I'm excited to get around to Helsreach one of these days.

 

What I have tried is Siege of Castellax, and while Werner's prose is fine, while his atmosphere is fine, there is literally nothing to that story. I couldn't be bothered to finish it, none of the characters were likable and they certainly weren't going anywhere either.

[bluntblade]

Castellax's characters were somewhat lacking. Battle of the Fang had a pleasing melancholy to it, reflected on both sides. Castellax had almost no one to root for, though that was partly the fun of it.

[Wulfburk]

Rynn's World got me into reading w40k books. Loved it a lot!

 

 

 

Quite a simple story but its great and a real page turner. Wonder why steve parker stopped writing for black library.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@b1soul:

 

Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller kinda bored me. there is very little I found memorable about either novel, which is a bummer because the idea of a secret war between the Wolves and Inquisition sounds awesome to me.

 

Stormcaller I never even finished. I stopped maybe half way through and havent the will to pick it up again. 

 

frankly, I think I was in a funk when reading the novels due to the crap being churned out by BL at the time. I found just about every one of the SM Battles/Conquest novels unreadable/unejoyable. I stopped buying BL novels blindly around this time period. 

 

Battle of the Fang is just "amazeballs". The portayal of the Thousand Sons and Wolves were fantastic, the politics of the Termpering were incredible, and the story fleshed out something I've been interested in for a long time. (and bonus points to GW for their Primaris releases, proving that the Wolf Geneseed can be stabilized and reproduced and a middle finger to an excellent story where nobody wins)

[b1soul]

and bonus points to GW for their Primaris releases, proving that the Wolf Geneseed can be stabilized and reproduced and a middle finger to an excellent story where nobody wins

Sarcasm?

 

BTW, is it established as fact that SW primaris geneseed is immune to Wulfen shenanigans? If that's the case, BA primaris geneseed would be immune to Black Rage/Red Thirst.

 

Now...going forward, we know that oldmarines will be phased out. There will only be primaris on the loyalist side in a few centuries time. If the primaris are all vanilla marines with no quirks...that sounds like a terrible fluff development.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

and bonus points to GW for their Primaris releases, proving that the Wolf Geneseed can be stabilized and reproduced and a middle finger to an excellent story where nobody wins

Sarcasm?

 

BTW, is it established as fact that SW primaris geneseed is immune to Wulfen shenanigans? If that's the case, BA primaris geneseed would be immune to Black Rage/Red Thirst.

 

Now...going forward, we know that oldmarines will be phased out. There will only be primaris on the loyalist side in a few centuries time. If the primaris are all vanilla marines with no quirks...that sounds like a terrible fluff development.

 

 

like 50/50 sarcasm/exasperation 

I dont think it's been established if it's immune or not, but the fact that non-native fenrisian hosts are able to be implanted (unless every single Wolf Primaris was of the Heresy age)

 

Problem is we dont know enough yet, just Cawl's boasting. 

[Ascanius]

We don't know. The only Primaris son of Leman Russ that we've seen, as far as I know, is one Inceptor in Dark Imperium, and he was definitely from Fenris in the Great Scouring era.

[b1soul]

Yeah...immunity from flaws would make Primarii very, very boring IMO

[Ogun]

They have improved genetic stability, but Cawl specifically says that he did not remove their problem genecode, for the simple reason that it was integral to the design of both the BA and Wolves. 

Of course the Wolves did originally recruit from Terra with no apparent problems. We don't really know why the Wolf Brothers failed, the Fenris theory was just one possible explanation. The Wolves of course never tried it again.

 

 

 

 

 

Now...going forward, we know that oldmarines will be phased out. There will only be primaris on the loyalist side in a few centuries time. If the primaris are all vanilla marines with no quirks...that sounds like a terrible fluff development.

 

 

 

We don' t really know that, to be fair. 

I'm pretty certain that GW won't be removing the quirks from two of their top selling marine armies. Perhaps the Primaris buy the Wolves and BA some more time, but that will be it I suspect. 

[Xisor]

I think 40k's just set aside the sitcom narrator for a while. In ye olde days when much of the nuance was really implicit in the text (see 3rd Ed Codex: Necrons), it might have gone something like this:

 

Cawl, to Guilliman: I have perfected these Space Marines. Gene defects down, quirks overwritten. They're flawless!

Narrator: They were not flawless.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

@b1soul:

 

Blood of Asaheim and Stormcaller kinda bored me. there is very little I found memorable about either novel, which is a bummer because the idea of a secret war between the Wolves and Inquisition sounds awesome to me.

 

Stormcaller I never even finished. I stopped maybe half way through and havent the will to pick it up again. 

 

frankly, I think I was in a funk when reading the novels due to the crap being churned out by BL at the time. I found just about every one of the SM Battles/Conquest novels unreadable/unejoyable. I stopped buying BL novels blindly around this time period. 

 

Battle of the Fang is just "amazeballs". The portayal of the Thousand Sons and Wolves were fantastic, the politics of the Termpering were incredible, and the story fleshed out something I've been interested in for a long time. (and bonus points to GW for their Primaris releases, proving that the Wolf Geneseed can be stabilized and reproduced and a middle finger to an excellent story where nobody wins)

 

I too find a lot of the SM Battle sadly unreadable. Really to the point being almost a dice throw when I think about picking one up. There are a few good ones though... Wraight's 'Battle of the Fang' is a must read even if you're not a SW fan. It's well paced and has great character drama.

 

As to 'Blood of Asaheim' and 'Stormcaller', I must respectfully disagree. While definitely not fast paced, both are very good character driven, rather than plot driven novels. If you are not into that sort of thing then yes, pass them by.

[Jagus Kumkani]

Death of Integrity is outstanding. Sheds light on two Chapters I had known nothing about. It also showcases the honor between the two, despite their differences they fight and die together and there is nothing more I love than super-human broness. It shows the dynamic of Space Hulk combat and just how venerable Space Marines are, even in Tactical Dreadnought armor. We see and practical approach to fighting genestealers. Not some wild abandon towards the xenos, even for the Blood Drinkers.

 

Rynn's World highly enjoyable in the sense that we get to see how devastated the Crimson Fists are when they're attacked on their home planet. We get to see Pedro Kantor ask the really difficult questions, make the hard decisions about his men and his people. We got to see the Crimson Fists question their humanity which was something I never would have attributed to the Sons of Dorn.

 

I have Death of Antagonis, Legion of the Damned, and Armageddon I have yet to read.

[b1soul]

I went ahead and got Death of Integrity. I have faith in Haley

[Redrandy93]

Brothers I felt Battle of The Fang was one of the best of the series.    I just received from amazon  some more books last week.     I think I have 9 to read and more coming.   Glad I am retired.   

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I can't say enough good things about Wrath of Iron.  It really is to me the quintessential reading on the Iron Hands.  Pity they've retconned its version of events.

 

As for the others, I have to virulently disagree on the quality of a few others, specifically Death of Antagonis and Legion of the Damned.  DoA was so meh to me that I honestly can't remember much about it except the trope-like Super Weapon That Must Be Stopped.  I don't even remember the main character's name.  LOTD at least had a few parts and characters that stuck with me, but I was overall very disappointed in it.  It honestly seemed like none of the Excoriators actually wanted to be there, actually wanted to be fighting. . . which is ridiculous for Space Marines, who are hypno-indoctrinated to want to fight for the Imperium.  What I disliked the most was that the titular Legion was barely in the book; I bought it so I could specifically read about the Damned and they barely get any word-count!  The only thing I liked about LOTD actually has nothing to do with its literary value or plot, but instead references the 40K universe's metaplot: the Excoriators were the first mention of a Second Founding Chapter outside of the ones we've known about since the Heresy details were firmed up in late 2nd/3rd Edition.  It plays well into the massive expansion of the Legion numbers we got after the Heresy novels became such a big hit and really firms up that the Legions were not 10,000 strong but closer to 100,000+ strong.

[Kelborn]

Bought World Engine today. Currently in a Necron mood. Let's see if Ben has improved since Soul Drinkers. :)

[deathspectersgt7]

Bought World Engine today. Currently in a Necron mood. Let's see if Ben has improved since Soul Drinkers.

Nope .

[Morovir]

When did they retcon Wrath of Iron?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

When did they retcon Wrath of Iron?

 

6th Edition Codex: Space Marines.  There was no mention of the change in the 7th Edition, but the 8th Edition one does harken back to the 6th Edition change.  Basically, they removed Arven Rauth and the Librarian from the story and instead say that it was a Chaplain (grrrrr) who fought a Keeper of Secrets and sealed the warp-rift at the top of the spire.