8th Edition Grey Knights.

[Prot]

I'm actually really liking strikes this edition. Far more than 7th. The new stuff coming out may start to reinforce hordes, now that Orks and even Astra are doing it. I wish I had the luxury of more than 6 CP's and a large squad of strikes to annihilate that stuff in one shot. It would be a game changer for me. 

 

I'm still not sold on the Stormraven. I know it's good, but really feels like an eggs in a not so concealable basket. I still prefer a Landraider Crusader. 

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

 

 

Thought I'd ask here, since it's sort of related. Have PAGK been repackaged to include 32mm bases now?

 

EDIT: Nvm. Can confirm they have been. Awesome.

What were they on before?

 

Let me clarify, I bought some a couple of weeks back and they're on the same bases they've always been

They were 25mm like all marines previously. GW changed other marines to 32mm bases in 7th edition I think. Mine are bought used so are all on 25mm but according to GW webstore they now come with 32mm bases. Guess I'll change them because bigger ones look better anyway.

 

As for state of the Grey Knights, they are indeed tier B in terms of competitive gaming, but they have potential. I just ran some in a local tournament last weekend and was certainly impressed by GMNDK (or two actually). It took a lot of firepower to remove them and they did some real work. Mind bullets help, but are really situational. Purge soul against Conscripts without LD buff is murder, Vortex on top of three Stormsurges, Shadowsun, Ethereal and Darkstrider was glorious.

 

On next tournament I'm going to run 3 GMNDK along some Guard. I'm concerned I'm affected by diminishing returns with 3, since I can't buff all of their invulnerable saves.

 

 

You've picked the best unit we have access to. How many other units of ours can perform that well for sub-275 points? Nothing. It's also another case of massive internal overlap, why would you pick a NDK when you can just pick a GMNDK that's far better?

 

3 GMNDK + guard is a tourny list that's already going well. However, that isn't a "GK" tourny list, is it. That would be like calling a brimstone + mort a deathguard list.

 

 

I hope I never implied I was running a GK list. It was Imperial soup as per the trend. 

 

I had some paladins and apothecaries on top of GMNDKs. And a Stormraven too. GK were the punch of the list along with some Primaris Psykers delivered in a Valkyrie.

 

 

There was no indication that there was anything but GK, except for your next list.

 

Anyway, the idea is that GK should be an equally balanced army as any other proper faction. It's just so disappointing that we have so many weaknesses and not many strengths.

[Capt. Mytre]

I'm actually really liking strikes this edition. Far more than 7th. The new stuff coming out may start to reinforce hordes, now that Orks and even Astra are doing it. I wish I had the luxury of more than 6 CP's and a large squad of strikes to annihilate that stuff in one shot. It would be a game changer for me. 

 

I'm still not sold on the Stormraven. I know it's good, but really feels like an eggs in a not so concealable basket. I still prefer a Landraider Crusader. 

 

Strikes are great verse hoards with no armour save/6+ saves. Think poxwalkers and generic orks. However, the higher the armour save, SB become significantly less effective. Against marines, you might kill 4 with a 10 man squad, if they are in cover, you will kill two. Similar applies to struggling to killing orks if they run invuln shield + FNP.

 

Our only counter to them is astral aim and a 2cp strat. This means that it's limited to one squad per turn, even in a 2k game, which makes spamming strikes ineffective.

 

As for SR vs LR, there's no contest. SR wins every time. More guns, more manoeuvrable, a little less durable, cheaper is every regard. As for LRs themselves, Godhammer > Crusader > Redeemer. Godhammer fills part of the anti-armour/toughness issues we face. Crusader is pretty crap, we don't need any more S4 AP0 shots. Redeemer is even worse, with the 8" range flamer.

[Prot]

 

 

As for SR vs LR, there's no contest. SR wins every time. More guns, more manoeuvrable, a little less durable, cheaper is every regard. As for LRs themselves, Godhammer > Crusader > Redeemer. Godhammer fills part of the anti-armour/toughness issues we face. Crusader is pretty crap, we don't need any more S4 AP0 shots. Redeemer is even worse, with the 8" range flamer.

 

 

No contest? You should play some of the locals here. The flyer can't be hidden. We play with decent terrain, but it would never cover a flyer. Alpha is so hard here that one flyer is really just a magnet of death. 

 

I'd like to take it out more... really I would but we never list tailor here, so my chances of getting a ground dwelling ork player are as high as getting a billion shot, long range Astra game in. 

 

I really don't think the Crusader is "crap". I was impressed at a local event by a BT player using two of them loaded up. He put a lot of netlisting guys on their backside with it.

 

But overall I agree that using a large point unit in the game is becoming a bad idea the more codexes we see. Knights for example just really seem to have been a casualty of this edition. Losing that last wound to a flashlight is also completely demoralizing.

 

Don't get me wrong I like the Stormraven but the loss of those big flyers in T1 (which has happened to me) is such a massive blow.... I honestly haven't pulled one out since. (for me it equated to an instant loss... too many footsloggers at that point to have a chance).

[TheHumbleBug]

You should always tailor your lists to your local meta.

[Godeskian]

You should always tailor your lists to your local meta.

Or not and build good take all comers lists.

 

I feel your pain about losing a stormraven in turn one. Hey did you know eldar can link fire prisms and fire each of the :cussers twice? :p

[Prot]

You should always tailor your lists to your local meta.

 

Not really an option.. my meta is too wide and varied. I play in 2-3 groups (including just about anyone at the local GW). There is no set meta here.

 

 

You should always tailor your lists to your local meta.

Or not and build good take all comers lists.

 

I feel your pain about losing a stormraven in turn one. Hey did you know eldar can link fire prisms and fire each of the :cussers twice?

 

 

What a pile of Xenos fun that is!

 

I think as I was saying with each codex it becomes less and less valid to have that high point unit doing too much heavy lifting, or being too heavily weighted in responsibility for our lists performing. 

 

"General" meta I still can't plan for. In some cases if I'm playing someone very new, I put away a lot of options. That's the only 'list tailoring' I do.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Prot

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

 

As for SR vs LR, there's no contest. SR wins every time. More guns, more manoeuvrable, a little less durable, cheaper is every regard. As for LRs themselves, Godhammer > Crusader > Redeemer. Godhammer fills part of the anti-armour/toughness issues we face. Crusader is pretty crap, we don't need any more S4 AP0 shots. Redeemer is even worse, with the 8" range flamer.

 

 

No contest? You should play some of the locals here. The flyer can't be hidden. We play with decent terrain, but it would never cover a flyer. Alpha is so hard here that one flyer is really just a magnet of death. 

 

I'd like to take it out more... really I would but we never list tailor here, so my chances of getting a ground dwelling ork player are as high as getting a billion shot, long range Astra game in. 

 

I really don't think the Crusader is "crap". I was impressed at a local event by a BT player using two of them loaded up. He put a lot of netlisting guys on their backside with it.

 

But overall I agree that using a large point unit in the game is becoming a bad idea the more codexes we see. Knights for example just really seem to have been a casualty of this edition. Losing that last wound to a flashlight is also completely demoralizing.

 

Don't get me wrong I like the Stormraven but the loss of those big flyers in T1 (which has happened to me) is such a massive blow.... I honestly haven't pulled one out since. (for me it equated to an instant loss... too many footsloggers at that point to have a chance).

 

 

You need to present multiple threats. If they sinks tons of shots into a SR and don't deal with the 500+ points of paladins coming for them, that's a boon for you.

 

Also, BT is completely different to GK. They aren't oversaturated with S4 AP0 shots like we are. Like, what does it give to us? A tough transporter, TL assault cannon and two hurricane bolters. You'll get more value from 2/3 AC Razorbacks than you do from a single crusader. It also can't deal with high toughness/armoured targets, which is what we can't deal with either outside of melee, and excels at doing what we already do well, and that is killing hoards of low save models.

[Prot]

Yup BT are very different. It was an example to show the proper application of the unit though.

 

The real-life issue with your example is what hits a Stormraven doesn't necessarily target a Paladin. I like the idea, really I do, but last game I'm playing against an Astra guy with 18 lascannons, and still lots of anti infantry. 

 

In a case like this, yes it's good to present multiple threats as you say, but I prefer over lapping them. GK do really remind me of Deathwatch in this way... it's just exceptionally difficult. I'll try retesting the Stormraven. 

[Trevak Dal]

Could you saw the flying base down a little, give it a lower profile? That is to say, is there anything directly saying you can't in the rules? Because if not...have it "flying" at landraider levels.

 

 

Or build an adjustable flight stand where you can raise and lower it on the fly.

 

When people get pissed and say "that's not fair" say "yeah I'm sure those Iraqi Republican Guard thought that when they were on that highway leaving Kuwait when the Airforce and Army Dunked on them."

Edited November 16, 2017 by Trevak Dal

[Gentlemanloser]

There are absolutely no rules on base sizes or wysiwyg / 'modelling for an advantage' in the brb any more.

 

The Raven would need a flying base, as it's a vehicle that has a base so all measurements are taken from it.

 

But you can model the height of it however you want.

 

Opponents can disagree about anything they desire anyway. Flying base heights or number of GMNDKs you're using. /shrug