How is everyone dealing with the hate?

[Major_Gilbear]

40k8E is the first "new" iteration of 40k since 40k3E. In such an environment where few armies have a full codex, and where several of those that do are very limited in model-terms, an army with extensive options and a new codex is going to be strong. As soon as other factions start to get their codexes as well, any current imbalance will soon shift.

 

I do think that "hate" is something of a typical overreaction however, and I don't feel the need to validate or pander to such hyperbole. Yes, okay, some armies/units/playstyles might be not hugely entertaining to face, but if it's that much of a chore for your opponent to face such a force, then why even agree to a game and then be unsportmanlike about it?

 

In situations where one army is deemed to be much stronger than the other, it's much better to assess the two forces and agree to use a scenario or terrain setup that creates a more interesting game for both of you - this way you both get to play, and nobody feels that the effort spent on the army they wanted to make was wasted or unappreciated. It's been a long while since I remember seeing any real terrain guidelines given in a GW publication, but I'll always remember the advice given in the 40k2E rule book: roughly speaking, if armies just trade ranged blows from their deployment zones, add more terrain until you get to a terrain level that provides a fun game for both of you (and in 2E specifically, this generally meant more terrain = better game).

[OnboardG1]

It's interesting that most players assert "Guard is unbeatable" but very few players actually ask "How do I beat guard?". If I get stomped by someone then I'll usually ask how they think I should have played to put their army under stress. If you get someone who is an unhelpful pest they won't tell you but most people will give you some pointers on it. People want to win but often don't want to develop the depth of understanding needed to defeat an army that has strong, easy to understand builds. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Yeah that's what irks me. I'll beat someone and they'll complain about how my army is OP. I'll then point out every misstep they made and how I exploited it. Things like advancing the whole army forward full speed even though they knew I had three units in reserve, so I completely encircled them at the start of turn two and tore them apart. Sending Electropriests to charge a Hellhound, deploying their army right on the line in range of everything, dropping in Scions to hunt Infantry Squads. All so silly, but they don't listen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'm used to 6th/7th Guard where you had to finagle points and combo up hard just to be competent. Now that same mentality results in really good lists because everything works together so much better, and a lot of lackluster units have been given much-needed improvement. 

 

Hopefully they'll take my advice and learn how to put up a decent fight.

[WarriorFish]

I have experienced no IRL issues, but then I have had Guard since 2nd Ed and associate with reasonable human beings

 

I can't add much to the posts already made, but suffice to say there will always be "hate". So let them have at it if that's what they want, it's on them not you. If it's truly so terrible how is your opponent enjoying himself, and for that matter how much fun are you having with someone carping on about things? Sounds like a game that shouldn't happen for the benefit of both sides.

 

Besides, give it another edition or two and GW will probably bugger everything up and Guard will be back near the bottom of the pile have no fear

[duz_]

I'm used to 6th/7th Guard where you had to finagle points and combo up hard just to be competent. Now that same mentality results in really good lists because everything works together so much better, and a lot of lackluster units have been given much-needed improvement.

I think this is a good point. I often find myself seeing what combos I can come up with as a result of 7th.

Then I have to try and stop myself with some of these combos as guard is definitely in a stronger place than before so they're not quite as necessary for a general list.

Well except for wyvrens... the twin linked stratagem helps a bit when you want squishy things dead.

[Mordian Glory]

I have yet to come across any actual real world hate, but that is probably because I have been playing IG for so long that my regular opponents know I am Guard player through thick and thin. I havent had anyone moan at events either because my army is nearly all Metal Mordian Iron Guard and I play to a theme so my opponents work out pretty quickly I am a "proper" guard player.

 

In my local club I get teased a bit for being a "band wagoner"  but it is said very tongue in cheek. The ongoing joke at the club is I jumped on the band wagon 10 years early! Overall though people tend to give me respect because they have seen me go to event after event and get destroyed game after game through 6th and 7th. With some of the newer guard players who have switched from Tau and Eldar to IG, they get ripped on pretty hard but it still just fun and games and to be honest, those new "WAAC" guard players are self aware enough to know what they have done and are used to getting hated on a bit with there army choices!

[Chris521]

Well I only play friends, so no problem there. Though it's pretty funny when a back seat gamer comments about how op guard is, then a few minutes later criticize your list for not including conscripts or scions.

 

Online? I've been utilizing the ignore feature on Dakka.  I've noticed that 90% of the guard hate is from like 6 people who post about it like it's their job.

[Guardsman Bob]

Besides, give it another edition or two and GW will probably bugger everything up and Guard will be back near the bottom of the pile have no fear :lol:;)

The-Bringer-of-Mary-Sues released a bland, unimagantive, and crappy Guard Codex with his left hand and bestowed the first Grey Knights Codex and a truely Broken Necron Codex with his right. That guy says he’s returning (or has) to GW.

 

But for now at least the Dev Team is creative and innovative.

[Zectz]

Wait till Eldar, Tau & Necrons get their codex traits/stratagems etc and this hate for Imperial Guard will all blow over I guarantee it. But as others have said I'm pretty sure the hate online is from a select minority that are the loudest and have a bachelors degree in online trolling.

[olcottr]

They could be upset because their codex isn't out yet and they're taking it out on you.  Or more likely it's a political move to try to throw you off your game.  You seem like a good guy.  Just smile and say "good game" and move on.  Avoid playing with this negative person in the future.

[Bonzi]

The hate is continual and has less to do with the codex than it does with the people.

 

In my local group everyone calls my Necrons my crutch army because I haven't lost with it. I use heavy destroyers and a big unit of Lychguard which current meta says I shouldn't. Everyone in the group hates these units and thinks they're broken. Necrons are tough no doubt, but if you spread your shooting out so that you only damage multiple units rather killing than one or two outright, then the loss is on you.

 

I play Emperors Children. Same story. I run a squad of possessed who are not great. Because I murder with them that unit is 'broken'.

 

I play BA and I run a first company list of Terminators and furiosos. Total drek in meta but again, a couple of wins and they're 'broken'.

 

My AM will just be the next gripe point even though I played all these armies since as early as 4th and the newest, Guard, was in 7th when they were weak.

 

Shrug your shoulders and tell them that nothing teaches better than defeat. God knows running a jump pack army in 5th taught me loads about how to lose.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Bonzi

[our_baz]

A good old fashioned metal dreadscock usually does the trick for the haters, but I digress. Once the Codexes for the pointy ears and the bugs arrives, the online moaning brigade will shift their focus. Then after that they'll moan about the toasters and the fish.

[FallenSoldiers]

I agree once the Eldar and Tau get their codex releases.... it’ll be “Astra who??” again....

[Guardsman Bob]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000/

 

Look at the previews of their goodies. They can have free upgraded Wraithlords as tough as a tank without being an actual tank or enjoy the benefit of a Commissar moral protection without needing the model.

 

Black Gurdians have a shooting stratagem significantly better than the Mordian Volley Fire at the same 1CP cost.

 

I think the game is going to be alright. XD

[Pioantom]

I've not experienced "hate" per say but I have been having some frustrated opponents. I just got home from my LFGS and a small point game. We were playing 650pts, it's a weekly event they put on. Since 8th has dropped I have lost once. Tonight's game I tabled my opponent on turn 2, having lost 4 scion models. The gentalman I played against was very polite and a good sport. That being said you could tell he was upset.

I keep trying to mix it up but I still seem to be stomping my opponents. I think I'm going to start playing my deathwatch until some more codecs drop or at least till I loose a bit. I just don't want to be a guy that people don't want to play.

[HenricusTyranicus]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-40000/

 

Look at the previews of their goodies. They can have free upgraded Wraithlords as tough as a tank without being an actual tank or enjoy the benefit of a Commissar moral protection without needing the model.

 

Black Gurdians have a shooting stratagem significantly better than the Mordian Volley Fire at the same 1CP cost.

 

I think the game is going to be alright. XD

I'd have to math out whether it actually is better, tbh. It's better generally, but I think I can construct scenarios where the Mordian one would be better situationally. And when you can only use a stratagem every so often anyway, being better situationally is not bad.

[Kinstryfe]

I'm in a real weird boat. I played WHFB 5th edition a ton when I got into the hobby, and then moved to 40k with the Advent of 3rd edition, but despite having and painting a ton of models, I'd barely played. I played with a few regular opponents a bit whenever it was that the 13th Black Crusade book came out (with mutants and such), then a bit when Apocalypse dropped because I had an ok GW store nearby, then no more games until 8th came out. Yet, despite not playing, I have a fairly large sized guard army painted, and kinda like them more despite my many many Marines outnumbering them. So i joined a local league when 8th dropped and went into it fully expecting to lose A LOT, but only lost 2 games of 8th since. I think the only reason I avoided the guard hate was because my army was 99+% fully painted, and my opponents realized that I wasn't jumping on a band wagon, I just benefited from a change in rules. Except one guy. He was THAT GUY though, so nothing of value is lost ignoring him.

 

Since the league ended I've only gotten a couple games in, all with other armies, and I think I'll be content to leave my guard for special occasions for awhile, at least until things are on a bit of a more even footing. Sadly my other painted armies are either counts-as sisters, which are also quite strong, or various Marines, who are also fairly strong with their new book. So I'm afraid of being accused of bandwagon jumping, despite some of my models being older than some of the young adults at the hobby shop.

 

So I guess my tl:dr for dealing with the hate is shelving my guard for a bit and being lucky enough to have other projects to play and paint instead.

[CoffeeGrunt]

The irony is that the main guy moaning about my Guard has a different army every month, never a model painted. I think he's just annoyed that while he's been smashing my Nids with his Imperial Soup army and is shocked that I'm actually decent with a good army. :P

 

I actually pride myself on being just about the only person who has a fully-painted army every time. (Well, aside from a newly-built unit or two.) 

[NatBrannigan]

I paint at the speed of an inebriated slug, with a missing antenna, whose tired, and hates painting...

 

So most of my models at the moment are just undercoated, but each and every one is lovingly converted or at least Kit bashed in some way so anyone accusing me of jumping on ANY wagons, let alone band wagons, will get a raised eyebrow fired in their direction.

 

The fact that, apart from my small Marine detachment and various Inquisitory bits, it's my only army means people aren't going to be yelling at me for playing it every week but it also means I can't play as something else until all the codicies are out. I have started taking more Marines in my army to tone it down a bit (mainly Tacticals that I have a soft spot for) and that's helped because they are noticeably not pulling their weight compared to the Guard parts of the army.

 

I have to say I think it says a lot for the type of player who collects Guard that we all seem more concerned that we're overpowered than anything else. I can't remember the last time a Guard player complained that we're underpowered, as has been the norm for the last 20 years. A hearty well done chaps and chapets to us all I think.

[Die4Emprah]

My Armor is contempt. 

[SydonianDragoon404]

I would love to see someone revive this topic in six months time and see if this is still the case. 

[Withershadow]

Just wait for Eldar and Tyranids to drop, and then the Marines to get their own unique Chapter books.  If Guard is really ruling the roost, it won't be for long.  Either the codices will bring parity, or the annual Chapter Approved will.  And I'm sure it will never be 100% balanced and swing to and fro.

 

Personally, I haven't tasted such delicious tears over Imperial Guard since 5th edition.  I'm even using my same 3x Hydras, 2x Manticore heavy support section again. Muahahahahah!

[slowclinic]

I would love to see someone revive this topic in six months time and see if this is still the case. 

I highly doubt this will still be the case. I have a feeling Eldar are going to have some very potent builds that will make the heavy-armour lists disappear quicker than anything in the currently released codices. Sure is nice to walk into GW and see that most of the Guard models typically in store are flying off the shelves though.

[TheShredder]

I've seen some concern about the book being OP, but I haven't seen anything resembling hate yet. 

 

I'm hoping that I can alleviate at least some concerns in various ways:
1) I'm playing a themed army which some people might find more fun in general. 
2) Because it's themed, I've 'wasted' quite a few points giving each of my characters appropriate gear.
3) I've also 'wasted' CPs giving 3 characters artefacts and (in some lists) taking an assassin who fits the theme.
4) I never use conscripts.
5) I never use super-heavy tanks, Knights or any such.

6) I don't use artillery (save for an occasional Mortar).
7) I never use more than 2 Leman Russ tanks (and often not even that).

 

My only real concern is that I do tend to use quite a bit of plasma - partially because it's in-theme and partially because it tends to be a good fit for my army (e.g. in my Armageddon army, it's the only special weapon that actually benefits from their doctrine).

[Feral_80]

I think you worry too much. Yes, it is great to limit the amount of combos/unfluffy stuff in your army, and by all means that is the way I play, amd I absolutely despise any attempt to bend rules, exploit loopholes, or just play an army that makes no sense (hello, Guilliman+conscripts).

 

Play true to your army and your good taste, if you have one. But this does not mean that we need to keep a checklist of 'don'ts' in order to feel relaxed when playing. Nobody used us that courtesy until an edition ago.

 

Do not believe to the whine: when most people will actually learn to play 8th, eventually they'll give up this obsession against AM. It seems to me to be already fading a bit as more codexes come out and show that everything out there is powerful, but nothing is overpowered.

 

Just look at the other codexes so far: Marines and Chaos win as many (if not more) tournaments as AM, so they should just shut up. Death Guard is great and as thematic as AM, very funny and powerful. The only ones who could complain of their codex are AdMech (it is limited and uninspired, and no FW), but they seem to be quite positive anyway, possibly also thanks to the expectation of Fires of Cyraxis.

 

Most of the whiners are those who have yet to get that 8th plays differently from 7th. Also, I cannot prove it but I have a very strong impression that a major part of the tears comes from the people that found out that their autowin button is not working anymore: former 7th top-tier armies such as Eldar, Tau, Daemons, etc. I know several people who own no other army but one of this, and played from the 6th or 7th having developed a genuinely *altered* perception of 40k. Some are showing quite clearly now that they do not find it comfortable to play under one of the fundaments of 8th: that it takes efforts, thinking, tactical play, and even some skills to win, after all.